I hope you participate in the debate and give your perspectives as well Amit.

Thanks Pratyush. I'm sure one of the gents taking part will say what I feel much better than I can. As the moderator, though, I'll feel free to raise unresolved questions. I hope the commenters do likewise.

Cricket Test Match is a Serious and Hardwork game. We need couple of more batsmen like Dravid and Laxman for the test matches. Also we need a couple of concentrated pace bowlers with good stamina (eg. Kapil Dev) who can bowl as many as overs with a good line and length.

Patience is a very much important factor in Test matches. Although we have Sewag scored 300 hundred runs in an inning of a Test match, I would not recommend him for the Test Matches. He is a player with lot of darring power and courage which is needed for facing the fast bowlers in the one dayers. We do not need courage and power in test matches, infact we need patience and stamina in the test matches. I would like to mention more in detail. but I would like to stop now.

Funny, isn't it, that the same disucssion about India's form in the one day games vs test cricket is taking place at the same time as questoins are being asked of England's differing fortunes in both forms of the game? It seems to me that the dilemma facing India is the reverse of that encountered by England - that the national psyche clearly attaches more importance to one form of the game than another...only Australia seem to have found success in both. The reasons for this are multiple, but crowd attendances in India give a clear indication of where the real interet lies....

I think that our expectation from the Indian team and Greg Chappell are going too high.Infact our state of mind is never in rest ,is it?
The current form of the team in one dayers is going great
and we cannot say that our test form is down in the dumps
because the number of test matches played after Greg Chappel's arrival are too less to comment on India's test form.
After all ,the whole nation is looking at the world cup which is a one day format and not test.

This comment seems funny but it is to be studied seriously.Yes, India is certainly on a decline in test cricket.
Irfan pathan does not swing the red ball as well as he swings the white one. Dhoni and Sehwag cannot be as destructive in the tests if the opposition stick to the tactics and bowl accordingly.
India lacks a genuine pace bowler who touches speeds upto 145 kmph. Its a wonder how the neighbouring pakistan is producing the whole lot of pacers while we are not able to.
And finally, the batting order shifting tactics of both Chappell and Dravid does not hold good in the longer version of the game as they do in the ODI's. And the recent axing of the very very special Laxman took 2 specials away from him.

India has only very recently risen in the One Day rankings ("Championship") - Otherwise, over the past few years, it was in the Test rankings that it featured high. England has also followed the same path except that it hasn't had the recent turnaround like India has. So, I think it's premature to label the recent Test failure and One-day success as indicative of a larger pattern. Give it more time - India is still #3 in the Tests (and #3 in ODIs to boot - I don't see what people are complaining about!).

Most of India's recent ODI wins have come in India and all on sub-continental pancake, flat pitches. Lets see what their "fantastic" batsmen do on bouncier or seaming tracks abroad (we saw some of that in tougher pitches used in a couple of Tests). I hope WI set up some hard, bouncy tracks like in the yesteryears which would see the likes of Sehwag, Yuvraj, Pathan and Dhoni hop like cats on a hot tin roof. An ODI, played like it is today, on deplorably one sided batting tracks do not provide any insight into the true character of a team. I think this team's performance against a not so great South African team showed its true ability. If SA had been a little bit better in the batting dept it would have been 3-1 instead of 2-2. If Harmison and Jones had been fully fit and Trescothick had opened who knows what might have transpired against England. These are all "what-ifs", the true nature of this team will be shown up against teams like Australia on their home turf. Who knows, maybe Edwards, Collymore and co might show them up as early as next month.

A few number of tests is not an indication of form of a team. But one thing is for sure Team India in test cricket has problem in second innings. Specially while chasing a target around 300 on the final day of the test match. Most of its batsman dont know whether to attack or defend. They are always in two minds and ultimately give up their wicket. I believe India has one of the strongest and technically sound batting line up's with Sachin, Dravid, Laxman in top 5 batsman other than Yuvi, Sehwag, Dhoni and now Raina. One days are more easy only thing a batsman knows is to attack so they do it and succeed. Indian team will do good even in longer version of the game if each of them believe in themselves.

Test mathces are trully the cocentration ,grit ,patience and the right technique the batsmen should posses. we have great batsmen who posses these qualities but under greg we r going through some transformation and more build up for the future, which is definitely in the right direction. we need a good opener in class of gavasker and finishers like vishwanath / kapildev for the tests. Ofcourse we are doing well with different combinations in one dayers.

India should have been able to draw the 3rd Test against England. Leading 1-0 with a match to go, they should have played the extra batsman. If being aggressive is what it was about, then we should have batted first having picked 2 spinners in Mumbai. Also, Munaf was getting the ball to swing late and was taken off just when he was looking deadly. These tactical blunders cost us a series victory. But for these mistakes, India would have won the series 1-0 and people would still consider them to be a top test team after the Aussies and we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's not that India is doing too badly. It's just that we are exceeding all expectations in ODI's!

While we've found the right kind of players for ODI side ... the Test Team is far from complete.

1. The recent change-of-guard from Rahul-Sachin-Sourav-Laxman (necessiated by Sourav's poor form and inconsistent performances by Sachin & Laxman)
2. Poor opening partnerships
3. Very few tests

have caused the performance dip. Our bowling wasn't our strength ... but the luxury of huge totals raked up by the batsmen allowed our bowlers to perform better.

I think we should have a very good team in place in about 3 or 4 test series. The bowling department is looking good with Sreesanth, Munaf, Irfan, RP Singh showing an ability to bowl to the fields set by the captain. Adding one experienced pacer (Nehra, Balaji?) and allowing the present bunch to gain some experience ... we would probably have a very good pace attack in days to come. Spinners' dept looks settled with Bhajji & Kumble doing well (Chawla could figure more when Kumble looks to retire).

With Pathan & Dhoni fast maturing into better batsman ... we would have two decent all-rounders in the team to make up for the lack of a genuine allrounder.

Two things could quickly set the balance right as far as batting goes:

1. The opener conundrum - Jaffer & Sehwag seem to have it in them. Maybe it's time Akash Chopra got another shot at it.

2. Sachin and/or VVS need to fire. If not, Kaif, Raina need to be given more opportunities.

In summary, we do have a good set of players in place. Just need some fine-tuning and some experience and we'll have a team that can win in any condition.

We definitely have best batting line up on paper for both versions of the game then why do we fail in Test cricket? I believe answer is lack of patience. In one day cricket each team has only 50 overs to pile up runs or 50 overs to defend their total. In this scenario all that matters is attacking batting or attacking bowling and field placements. But when we talk about test cricket the main thing that makes any team successful is to stick with its game plan and tactics which includes patience and concentration. Patience and concentration applies to all three departments of the game - batting, bowling, and fielding. All Team India has to do is learn how to be more patient and how to concentrate on their game plan. No doubt team India's think tank is doing right thing by giving opportunities to youngsters in both version of the game but given the opportunity they need to learn quickly how to develop the character of a test player (meaning how to be patient and concentrate on their game). And youngsters really have a good chance to learn this from seniors like Dravid, Tendulkar, and Kumble who have over 100 tests behind them. Sooner they learn it the better it is for them and Team India.

Also we need one fast swing bowler. Hope Munaf Patel will live upto the expectations.

The basic concept of Test & One day cricket is that bowlers win test matches and batsmen win One day matches.

If we look at the Karachi debacle, Asif won the match for Pakistan with his excellent spell in the first & second innings. Hoggard won the match for England in Mumbai. Irfan was a shade of himself in the second innings at Karachi.

It is very important that we groom Fast bowlers who can consistently clock over 145 kph. It is heartening to see that Chappel and Dravid have invested time in Munaf, VRV Singh and Sreesanth. All three are young and raring. Munaf has impressed a lot and if he could increase his speed and bowl consistently then we have unearthed a fast bowler.

We need two good fast bowlers, one Swing bowler and two spinners for our test matches. Pathan is a genuine all rounder and a very good Swing bowler. Kumble and Bhaji are great spinners. It is the two fast bowlers who we need. With Munaf we have one but is the other fast bowler who is to be found.

With regard to batting Laxman and Sachin will hit form. After all they are great batsmen. We have our WALL always. The opening pair is a big problem. We played well in Australia because our openers gave great starts. Sehwag is not a test player. We need someone to partner the other Mumbai opener. With Rahul, Sachin, Laxman, Yuvi, Dhoni, the middle order looks strong.
With Pathan, Bhaji, Kumble and two fast bowlers, we have a great test side in the making.

Chappel has turned the tide on the One day side and has got a Australia beating side. Only in our wildest dreams we can think of India chasing and winning 15 times. With the above team with the two genuine fast bowlers, we are looking at a very good test side.

Cheers
Arun Paul

Too much cricket, just too much. Complemet that with Afridi's retirement. It seems we've got players with shorts bursts of energy and vigorous temperament for the shorter version, however very few to sustain this in the longer version. Both the tests that we've lost recently, clearly supports this analogy too. We were on top of the opponent for quite some time only to meander and wilt away the little advantage without the slightest of fight and valour.

It's quite vivid, we need separat Test and ODI compositions. Mr Chappel seems too lost into ODI's and players too have little to say about the Test Performances. Where's the energy they show during ODI's. BOLD Selectors wake up.

What more can u expect from a team representing a country whose crowd boos the greatest batsmen has ever played for them??!! In India, people spend nearly two years talking about victories in easy pitches, while spend less than 2 minutes in discussing about failures. India's poor run in test cricket has very much to do with its own "cricket culture".
I agree with and praise each and every word of Altaf (posted April 13). In September, India is to play tri-series in SriLanka, which has not lost a single ODI Final out of the last 15 finals it has played at the PREMADASA Stadium in Colombo. In SL, pitches are far better in the sense that even if a side scores 250, it can contend it. India's so called "genius's" watch out!!!

Well, so you guys started to believe that our cricket team reached the next level. I would request you to wait for couple of months. SA minus Gibbs and Boje showed us where were we and Champions trophy would reveal more I guess despite doctored pitch. I would request you guys show some patience to give any kind of certificate to anybody. To put counter point GC/RD destroyed two top players Kaif and Veeru. Dont agree then dont give them credit for victories against C grade England and player like Raina and Srishant.

Last but not least, what a consistency in this series - all the matches 5 down before reaching 100. Do not live in fools paradise that any good team will let you go every time.

Still India wins WC 2007 it would be another not only fluke like 83 but also biggest upset in any sports history.

My reason for saying is simple. A rigid team management who does not want to except faults/drawbacks for some dubious reason can not achieve anything good.

I mean c'mon! Are we as a nation not capable of constructive criticism? Reading some of the comments defintely would make you think so! The what if's are good delusionary critiques - one can always argue that it was in South Africa against very much the attack that is being professed above as being missed, we managed to beat all except the Australians! So what would a trescothic, jones, harmison , gibbs, boje do differently than a peterson, flintoff, hoggard, ntini, and smith could do? I mean as a team we can only play the opponents that we get, instead of celebrating victories we are always trying to belittle achievements. Why cant we just celebrate victory for what it is nothing more nothing less

I guess it had much to do with the batsmen. Sachin and Lakshman didnt fare well in tests for a long time now. I somehow tend to think that India is losing its place in tests because of sachin, it might sound odd but he used to score at an average of 60-70 and add that to dravid and sehwag we had a great thing going on. But now, we do not have sachin firing and only dravid is the lone guy hitting hundreds and its not enough for us to win, we have gone back to days where sachin scores centuries and we lose.

I guess in onedayers, its just 50 overs and so anyone hitting 60 or 70 will set up the win, and yuvraj is in the form of his life, and sachin played few great knocks at the top in pakistan.

India defly still rely too much on sachin- even in the recent england series, we have accomodated powar and made dravid open but we all know we need sachin as opener and more than that as a bowler.

In case of test matches, earlier it used to be ganguly and the second opener who is always a liability but now everyone other than dravid seems to be liable.

Mr. John's vituperative analysis above should apply to all teams. We all know that other than Australia no team has been consistent. And all this "what if" analysis, post mortem, is meaningless as we could all do it from our own biases and arrive at different answers. Newcomers are frequently a surprise package. In the last Pakistan series it was the new bowler Asif that had great impact. Very few players have done consistently well on harder bouncy tracks with the current exceptions of Ponting, Lara and Dravid. Paradoxically, South Africa now seems to be the new home of (400+) belters, not India.

I cant comment on others, but Sehwag has proven himself against Australia in Australia and in India but the burn out factor may finish him early in his career unless he decides to stop playing these meaningless 7 match ODI series. I think Mr. Amit Varma is dead wrong; Sehwag should be largely a Test player. All you have to do is to look at his Test vs ODI record. Has been in the top 10 to 15 Test players for a while now!

Hold on a minute. Why are we having this discussion at all? Based on what I've seen and read so far, it promises to be very interesting (not to mention controversial!) but wasn't there another discussion about this recently? "The State of Indian Cricket?" Wouldn't this have been covered in that?

"In September, India is to play tri-series in SriLanka, which has not lost a single ODI Final out of the last 15 finals it has played at the PREMADASA Stadium in Colombo. In SL, pitches are far better in the sense that even if a side scores 250, it can contend it" - I think that is one of the most biased and stupid comment I have heard in recent times. SL pitches better than Indian Pitches ??? Give me a break !!!

I think it is high time we realized that Indian team consists largely of average players who are made to seem larger than life after a few successful outings on the placid batsmen friendly pitches of the subcontinent. India's so-called resurgence in one day cricket over the recent couple of years has been largely due to the fact that most of what India has won has been on home or home-like conditions. The only time, in recent memory, when Indian batsmen faced a fast pitch, as was the case in Karachi, the bubble called Indian batting burst and the result was there for all to see.

As far as test matches are concerned, Dravid, Laxman (not in the current team), and Tendulkar are the only batsmen today in the Indian team who have some bonafides at the international level. The rest are all sub-continent kings and princes. Sadly, Tendulkar can no longer be expected to carry the burden. Laxman has never been consistent. That leaves just Dravid. This utter weakness in batting shows when Indians bat on "alien" fast pitches. The Sehwags, Yuvraj's, and Dhonis of this world simply skittle away.

Coming to the bowling department, India still does not have an attack that can bowl a side out comprehensively in any form of the game. The spinners, be it Kumble or Harbhajan look toothless when bowling on straight pitches. Although there is some hope in the pace department, we are yet to have a genuinely fast bowler who can rip through batting orders on any sort of a pitch. One still recalls Chappell's pathetic ranting during the Pakistan tour - "India needs a genuine fast bowler".

Given these stark realities, it is only obvious that in test match cricket, where a team's true potential is tested, India has been withering away. Our batting has never been the same as it was in the seventies with the likes of Gavaskar, Vishwanath, Amarnath, and Vengsarkar, who were great players of both pace and spin. Our bowling ineptness is no longer a matter of conjecture.

Bottomline - India is average not just in tests but also in one-dayers

As many others have written here, i also feel that we are not doing very bad in tests. Its only that we are not doing as good in tests as in ODIs.
Few reason why we are doing good in ODIs are:
1. We have young blood in our team and everyone is excited about shorter version of the game.
2. We have lot of match winneres now. We only had Sachin,Saurav and Dravid earlier but now every player in our ODI team can win a match single handedly.
3. Tactics of captain and coach. Both captain and coach have lot of strategies planned for ODI form of game and most of these experiments are returning good results.

Some reasons why we might be doing bad in tests:

1. Young blood. For longer version of the game we need experience and i thik our current team lacks that.
2.Focus:Audience and media has lot of focus on ODIs as compared to that of tests.May be thats the reason why players dont take the longer version of the game seriously.
3. Fitness: I dont think our cricketers are really fit for longer version of the game. I dont think Yuvi,Dhoni or Kaif who are excellent ODI players can ever stay in the crease for more than a day. Only 2 specialist test players that i see are Dravid and Laxman.

My suggestions on improving the test statistics for india are:
1. Pick separate teams for ODIs and tests. Just because Yuvi or Sehwag have done well in ODIs they shouldnt be picked for tests. It really requires a different kind of game and Laxman should no way be dropped from tests
2. Stick to basics in tests. Experimenting and agressiveness can win us ODIs but not tests.
3. Pick specialist. Make shift openeres,keepers can work well for a ODI but they dont help in tests

Whatever the form India is in ODIs now doesn’t matter to the world cup 2007. Australia is the team going to win it!

India have done well in ODIs over the last few months; beating SL, drawing SA, beating Pak and beating Eng. Commendable but no need to gloat. The time to gloat would be when we beat strong teams on their bouncy pitches like in SA and Aus.

I strongly feel we need to have Laxman, Kumble and Sachin in ODI team. We have done well without them at home on batting friendly wickets but abroad it could be a different story. Sachin, one hopes comes back fresh with a vengeance. His performance of late has been disappointing especially in Tests. Time and again he has not performed when India needed him the most. However, he has done much better in ODIs and can be persisted with for some more time. Dhoni is being elevated to super star status too fast in my opinion. He has a ‘strange’ technique. He has a good arm and eye and is able to get away
Against mediocre bowling. But lets wait and see how he does against high quality bowling attacks abroad. Yuvraj is immensely talented. All he has to do is improve his defence and shot selection. A lot of times he seems to be throwing his wicket away. He need to lookup to Dravid and learn from him in that regard. Raina is close to becoming a
Long term solution to our middle order needs. Venugopal Rao also has done well and should be given more chances atleast on a rotation basis. Sehwag plays too many loose shots. You can’t keep playing uppish shots on the off side against a good fielding side.
You will run out of luck sooner rather than later. Powar is bowling well but needs to add more variety, like faster one, straight one, doosra etc. He is also a useful lower order batsman.

Performance in Tests against Pak and Eng. Has been pathetic (the 2 big losses).
This shows we need to pick players with the right temperament for the long game.
Laxman must be brought back for Tests as well as ODIs. Let us not destroy his confidence. He is too valuable a player. He should be good atleast for another 3 years.

ODI Team:

Tendulkar
Dravid
Laxman
Raina
Yuvraj
Dhoni
Pathan
Powar
Kumble
RP Singh
Patel

Test Team:

Jaffer
Dravid
Laxman
Raina
Yuvraj
Kaarthick
Pathan
Powar
Kumble
RP Singh
Patel

Reserves from:
Sreesanth
Uthappa
Sehwag
Harbhajan
V.Rao
Kaif
Gambhir

what i think is kaif and v.rao should given more chances to play test cricket becos they got the Patience and sound technique. Patience and sound technique is a very much important factor in Test matches as what are seeing is shewag is just throwing away the wickets and lacking foot work.Rao and kaif got a sold foot work.i dont understand why this guys need a pace bowler speeding above 145 look irfan dont he picks up wickets with this speed. line and length is important for picking wickets lets this pace bowlers concentrate on there line and length.more pace without line and length is much easier for the batsman to score runs.

Currently, Indian cricket team focusses on ODIs too much because of the upcoming world cup in which India must do good showings. Otherwise, things will not go well with public. Tests are not hit out competitions like One Dayers. It is like a war. It is strategy oriented. It requires roles and role players. Indian cricket does not have a strategy for it. That is a tragedy.

I believe all those people who think India is average, is not up to the mark, or is made to look larger than life in Cricketing life, will regret it when India outperforms its best performances from before. New Zealand, England, South Africa and few others all went through a transition phase. A reform was brought that stayed for shorter durations for some teams and longer for others. Infact West Indies has probably had the longest transition, its still ongoing. India is going through one too. How long can you expect your Rahul-Sachin-Laxman-Saurav cabinet to perform and deliver? And deliver for who, people like you lot? Its time for fresh blood to enter arena, and Greg Chappell has not missed any trick here!! Neither is Rahul Dravid any dummy!! Be thankful that you all have the best Captain in the world for your country. Things take time and i can see how Greg Chappell is raising the levels of confidence and bringing a change in attitude of our players. Things are going towards positive definitely and no one can deny that, and to say that this is the best India can do and they will fail overseas or hop_like _cats on hot tin roofs is absolute rubbish.

You all compare India to Australia, South Africa, England....have you lot ever compared yourselves to the supporters from other countries ever? I live in Australia, and i know the difference between the pommie or aussie supporters and us Indians.

Take it from me, India will make you all eat your words. And that day some people like us will have the last laughs and you all will just walk away ignoring the heights India will achieve smuttering words under your breaths to yourselves.

And yes, India will win the World Cup!!

"Whatever the form India is in ODIs now doesn’t matter to the world cup 2007. Australia is the team going to win it!

Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2006 04:09 AM"

Mate!! I'm assuming you are an Aussie for sure, you need enlightenment, Aussies in the last 12 months got challenged, and challenged very well, by almost every opposition they played with. Add Bangladesh to the list now too. I doubt they'll win the 2007 W/Cup. No way!!!

India is very good ODI side. India is improving in Tests also.

I disagree with people who thinks india is not doing well test. Only test india really lost is in Karachi test with great bowling by asif. Against england , india lost because of dravid's poor captaincy decisions. India try to win the test and lost. India could have easily played for a draw.

India is playing well in ODI because this group is more talented than any past indian team in ODIs. Why? Simple. India has role players. India has good finishers. Actually we have yuvi,raina,pathan and dhoni. And good fielding unit. Decent bowling and bowl to to the field setting. In Test india do not possess the great batting line up as indian batting is fragile as dhoni is completely unsuitable in tests. He is not aggressive wicket keeper and poor test batsman with his temparement.
India's Test opening , middle order is also not good. Only dravid is the only TEST class batsman as of now. Sehwag,Tendulkar,laxman are all out of form. Yuvi is not a test class batsman. He is inconsistent. Until he develops into a main stay in every Test , india will depends on Dravid to save them.

My ODI Team.

Tendulkar
Sehwag
Uthappa
Dravid
Yuvarj
Raina
Dhoni
Pathan
Sreesanth
Powar
Bhajji or Munaf patel.

Munaf is good in Test not great in ODI because he is lazy. MUnaf is next zaheer khan. great promise but poor fitness. He is afraid to go all out with every ball. He almost feel like he is going to get injured with every ball.

As far as Test, India has to have inform batsman and also india needs to find a 148+ average fast bowler. Not Peak.
That is my last word.