One day, well into a long streak of poor cricket, our coach and captain fight, as do BCCI officials over who will lead the board, and Indian cricket seems in turmoil. A few weeks later, we've beaten Sri Lanka 6-1 and the roses are out. Shortly after that South Africa is beating us and our coach is accused of showing his finger to the crowd. At every corner there is something unexpected, and no way of knowing whether things will get better or worse. We just watch and chew our nails, and it's a wonder we have any fingers left.

This discussion remains, though, as a capsule of what all of us felt at one point in time. Here's my suggestion: let's come back to it in five years time, on November 28, 2010, and see how everything we've said holds up.

Hopefully we won't still be fighting about Sourav Ganguly.

Comments are open for 24 hours from the time of this post, and will then be closed for this particular discussion.

very true.

Amit,

Yes indeed it was a good week of discussion, pouring of frustration, questioning, mud slinging, attacks, counter attacks, discussing strategies etc. My only concern is, what measures are taken for our exchange of ideas to fall into the right ears? I'm sure there a 1000's of fans reading cricinfo would have gone through the articles but not sure if they would have read comments and ideas of all readers. There were some great suggestions that came along. I'm just asking out of curiousity, could this whole week of discussion be summed up and put up as one whole article - including comments and feedback from various weiters? I dont know how far it is feasible but I feel it will be a good idea to do so. What do you think co - readers of cricinfo, specially W2W?

One critical question you have not answered in this debate - is doing well in cricket good for India or bad?

I was a fanatic cricket fan (hmmm...that sounds funny) in my younger days.

Over the years however I have become distressed at the obscene importance given to this under-acheiving team and its doings or non-doings. The amount of column space in our news media given to nonsensical little snippets on cricket is a case in point.

I think the important thing for the nation is to become a little less enchanted with this sport, we need to have more to do in life than follow this Englishman's relic.

It is great to have a community obsessed with any particular avocation and so should it be for cricket.

But it is not good for the country, to have the vast majority of urban India obsessed with the game. It's time we found other obsessions.

As I saw it, Chappell clearly had given the bird. Was it appropriate? No. Justified? I think so. I mean c'mon. How much parochial were those demonstrators. I mean being passionate is one thing, but stretching it to explain a lack of sensibility is quite another.

Dear Amit, your 5 years will gladly be reduced to 1 - if some resourceful Indian has the gall & the ball to submit a public appeal against BCCI's existence, its authority and its functioning. We desperately need a new body that is made up of only ex-cricketers with a knack for administration, and without interference by any politically motivated group or individual. The Dalmias of this world deserve to die a death with a blunt axe!

The day that happens, cricket in India will be on a song. A song that will reverberate throughout the subcontinent, flowing through to the Carribbean, within a year's time! Ah Dreams...

Thanks Amit,Mukul and all the others for triggering this forum.
But to be honest, not much of new ideas have come about, probably because cricket is discussed so much,churned inside out day in day out, in every form of media.
However, this was a good nutshell leaving very little uncovered and thanks for that.
A small point while we close, on the comments here. If Dalmias deserve the end as described by Sumit, what about his challengers in the fray,
Bindra - A turncoat ? (read friend cum foe of the same Dalmia) Who talks about only money in the game like Dalmia again.
Pawar - Nothing need to be said (we have all seen him in politics). Diabolical alternative, isn't it ?
Dungarpur - Certified as a joker 17 years back by the great Jimmy Amarnath ?
Are we looking at great days ahead ?
May be as Isaac mentions and is a good point, summarise the W2W discussion and present it to Pawar & Gang so that they can do something about it, assuming they win this ensuing 'pawar' game over the next 2 days. The problem is then they would have to sack themselves immediately, since one of the suggestions by various contributors here and in one of my comments earlier, the functioning of the ideal BCCI has to be through ex-cricketers of pedegree !
Do we really believe anything of that sort whill happen ?
We know the answer, which is camouflaged in the coach's 'middle finger' !!!!
Goodbye to all

Mr. Greg Mallinger,

Those are strong words you used. Here's my understanding of the game of cricket. You needs cricketers to play it; not run it. Just because you studied history in school for years, doesn't make you a good history teacher...does it ?

I do agree that the Dalmiya's and likes are not progressing Indian cricket, but dont think any ex-cricketers would for sure. What we need is qualified individuals (read enterprenaurs) to take this state of Indian cricket to newer heights.

Now thats simply in my humble opinion. By the way, I had suggested this before and would like to suggest again - can cricinfo put pictures of the writers on their website ? I would definitely want to the faces of my favorite writers aka Amit Varma, Sambil Bal, S Rajesh, Dileep Premchandran (favorite for a different reason) :)

Allright, now i am swithcing back to live ball-by-ball coverage of the 4th (or 5th) ODI between IND & SA.

I completely disagree with Niloy who said he did not like the "obscene importance given to this under-achieving team and its doings or non-doings" and that perhaps it was "time we found other obsessions". To say that India are under-achievers is a disgrace to the memories of all the great cricketers of our past and present. True, we may no have been as consistent as the Aussies of the 90s or the West Indies of the 80s but isn't it true that India beat the West Indies in the WC 1983 final and broke Australia's dream run in the Kolkata test of 2001? Cricket is so popular in India as it makes everyone feel good. A Tendulkar innings is celebrated with much joy not just because of the sheer quality of batsmanship but also because the spectator can forget all his worries and enjoy the 'moment'. In an increasingly trouble filled world, cricket gives us a lot of joy, and having a passion for it cannot be bad for urban India. In what way can it be bad for India? The Economy seems to be doing fine-thank you. Other sports are falling behind-cricket doesn't have an obligation to develop other sports. Do not get me wrong here, while I enjoy watching Paes-Bhupathi represent India in the Davis Cup and would like the Hockey team to do well, my loyalties lie with cricket. www.foreversport.blogspot.com

Dear Amit,

A week of incredulous events unfolded in front of us while this debate/conversation/thought process was going on.
Nearly everything was touched from corrupt power hungry BCCI officials and the demi-god status of players to the overzealous media and an equally insensitive public.

The irony is that we love to find weaknesses in everything be it system or players but we forget that it is we who raised them to reach such a stature or pinnacle.
When teams are made just to justify popular public sentiments then I would say that Indian cricket is not crackling with energy but dying. An individual plays cricket initially for the joy and if the joy turns into a life long pursuit of excellence it also gets converted for the success of his nation in the game.
Where is that line of thought?
We only have quarrels on why Saurav is not in the Team and due to who, Does Greg hate Saurav, Is Mr.Mahendra a soothsayer and Mr. Dalmiya a king maker.

Why don’t we instead concentrate on applauding the grit of Saurav of trying to make a comeback in the team while he is under extreme stress to perform?
Why don’t we let Greg do his job as promised, he is a learned individual and he would know how to make the best use of the resources if he is experimenting then let him.
One loss or win does not make a team good or bad. This is a good team but not a great one and to be a great team we have to sometimes eschew our own egos and let the people who matter do their jobs unfettered only then we can think of achieving be it the world cup or the aim of being the No 1 test team.

Saurabh

The coach finger pointing incident must be taken with a grain of salt as it happened in a highly partisan environment and in front on an irrational & stupid crowd. To be honest, even if it did occur the crowd deserved the “finger pointing”.
Nothing is more hair pulling than Indian cricket but come to understand it and one tends to shrug there shoulders and say "that's typical" and still enjoy it the way it is. Fact is "Cricket India" is a long way away from being a professional unit. The players & coach might be professional but not the administration. After all isn’t cricket one of India’s religions :)

the one thing that no one seems to take a note of is that the team by itself is the best case of how different religions and beliefs function in a modern day india.
it is the best representation of a republic that we are. a pathan or a zaheer or an azhar cause as many celebrations as a dhoni or a sidhu or a sachin does.
and that goes for the masses as well and not just the elite.
cricket by default has become the common religion in a land as diverse as ours.
is it time to stop being obsessed by cricket and move on...
i hope not...
america has its baseball and american football, europe has its soccer and they all have similarly obsessed fans..
so with all the bickering in and out of the team and on and off the pitch, i still live for that one beautiful outswinger, that one perfect cover drive, that one brilliant diving catch..
and i dare say i am not alone.
so mr dalmiya, mr bindra do your worst[ or best] i will watch the game as long as there is a match to be won..
and oh yes.. i will remain obsessed..

I think few of us were taken by surprise how Indian cricket team comprehensively defeated Srilanka but all of a sudden all the changes i.e. exclusion of Ganguly were justified but then South Africa was a different proposition unlike Srilanka.

There is no denying the fact that Indian Cricket team is the most overrated cricket team in the world. Whether they can win the next world cup remains to be seen but the existence of Australia with the emergence of England and Pakistan, India will find it increasingly difficult to establish its presence in the top three let alone be the best team in the world in both Test and ODI version of the game.

Given Australia's ashes debacle this year its obvious that neither Australia nor England can claim to be the best team in the world as England will be keen the avoid a series defeat today.

can we PLEEESSSE stop talking about Indian cricket and what potential it carries. a change of subject, or rather team is needed! try pakistan maybe?

You are absolutely right Mr.Varma. So many thimgs are happening so quickly that one can not guess as to where all this will end.
However 5 years is too long a period for us all to wait. Maybe a couple of years would suffice. All the ills of the present system should be removed and cricket should be administered and played in the true spirit of the game viz BY GENTLEMEN,FOR GENTLEMEN and should truly become a game of GENTLEMEN.

Behind the recent unpleasantness is the fight for individual or factional pre-eminence, in the team and in the BCCI. Nothing is really changing or will change in the short term.

For example, the conflict between the new Team Chappell/Dravid and the old Team Ganguly is about which faction of the team will have control, or rather, who is the new 'Dada'. Both sides, in the election and in the team are at loggerheads

An example are the pitch debates: In Nagpur 2004 test against Aus, a green pitch was alleged to be put in to embarass Ganguly by the anti-Dalmiya faction and now Kolkata has returned the favor.

Now, Chappell and Dravid have similar styles and Dravid has made good use of that opportunity to become the captain (Ganguly did the same in 2001, being close to Dalmiya). So, it is obvious that until things get settled, or the team completely accepts Dravid as the captain, Ganguly's presence will be unwelcome, to say the least.

Team composition: Dravid's side may include more faces from mumbai/karnataka (agarkar, karthik are in after a long time). Also, Sehwag will be groomed as the heir apparent. Ganguly brought in East/North players like Dhoni, Deep Dasgupta. Harbhajan,Kaif & Yuvraj got an extended look-in through Ganguly, though they may have made it on their own anyways.

So, nothing will change soon. Dravid, though, has a unique opportunity now to plot a new course above this subterfuge- he is a gentleman, he worked his way up and so far has been the utmost prfessional without favorotism. He can forge a truly professional team not beholden to any one group.

I wonder what will happen to Ganguly? Will Dravid be mindful of the recent past, or allow him a chance to end his career with grace? While Ganguly has 2 years or less left, with his class, he should be better than a Gambhir or a Raina, and with experience.

The best hope for Ganguly is he gets to be what Srinath was for India in the WC2003: A senior player chipping in now and then, being a guide for the new players, and on occasion, showing the youngsters a trick or two.

I would look no further than the 2007 WC- I hope it brings together the best of India, old and new and spurs them to victory. If the powers that be make it happen, it would be a fitting swan-song for an entire generation of Indian cricketers.