Once Anil Kumble collects his gratuity and provident fund, Tendulkar and Sehwag will be the only spinners left in the sub-continent, if, as patriotic but honest fans, we admit that Harbhajan should represent India at darts.

What happened to the Indian spinner, especially to left and right arm finger spinners? In the late Sixties, we had not one but two fine off-spinners pushing each other for a place in the Test team, Erapalli Prasanna and Srinivas Venkatraghavan. Bishen Singh Bedi was probably the greatest left arm orthodox slow bowler in modern cricket, but just a notch below below him were Padmakar Shivalkar and Rajinder Goel who would’ve played dozens of Test matches if they hadn’t had the misfortune of sharing an era with Bedi. Dilip Doshi, who succeeded Bedi, had a distinguished career despite making his debut after thirty. Even Ravi Shastri, who morphed into a fine opening batsman, had a respectable record as a left arm slow bowler.

But if you look at their successors from the Nineties, the decline is swift. Venkatapathy Raju and Rajesh Chauhan were fine first-class cricketers but they wouldn’t have managed a Test between them in the glory days of Indian spin bowling. And if M Kartik is anything to go by, those days are done. Kartik's slow bowling weapons were those strings of beads and bands wound round his neck and wrists. His plan, I think, was to persuade batsmen that he was a wily oriental. Perhaps he should have bowled in a patka.

This is blasphemous but I'm not sure that Bedi would have survived this epoch of short boundaries, enormous bats and batting instincts honed to ferocity on the whetstone of one-day cricket. I sometimes wonder if flight and moderate turn can work in contemporary cricket. Perhaps the finger spinner isn't so much extinct as obsolete. I can't think of a single one in contemporary cricket of any class apart from Daniel Vettori. Look at Saqlain Mushtaq’s extraordinary decline after the novelty of his take on the doosra wore off. The successful off spinners in contemporary cricket, Muttiah Muralitharan and Harbhajan Singh, are essentially wrist spinners.

The one ray of light for the orthodox left armer is the ugly but effective tactic pioneered by Nasser Hussain when he got Ashley Giles to bowl over the wicket into the rough wide of leg-stump to contain Tendulkar. It worked then and it worked again against the Indians in South Africa. But it’s a containing stratagem, light years from the lovely round-the-wicket aggression of Bedi’s classical style.

I hope I’m wrong about this. Perhaps the dearth of fingers spinners today is a passing phase soon to be remedied by some charismatic practitioner. After all, Abdul Qadir resurrected leg-spin bowling even as nostalgists had begun to lament its extinction. Monty Panesar seems a throwback to the old days in his attitude and the fact that he can’t field or bat seems to augur well: neither could Bedi, Prasanna or Chandrasekhar. And I really like Ramesh Powar: he flights his off-spinners and brings to his art Prasanna’s tubby poise and robustness. The buzz about India’s World Cup team seems to be that he’ll be left out in favour of a seamer. I hope he isn’t: the future a great Indian tradition might be riding on his success.

Interesting article again though your comments on Harbhajan and Kartik (who I personally feel has got a raw deal) are harsh. I'm sure there are capable finger spinners out there, but it's been difficult to break in in recent times with the glut of medium pacers and with Kumble and Harbhajan's spots cemented. Comparisons with the days of the great quartet are a bit fuile yet unavoidable, much like England's search for the new Botham over the years...

I've crafted a response to your previous article "The Strange Death of Indian Cricket" on my blog which is too big to post here. Do let me know what you think.
http://www.oddmanin.blogspot.com/

Daniel Vettori's skill is often understated because a lot of the time he is defending small nz targets and is forced to bowl defensivley.

Turn Turn Turn. Well, the song written by Peter Seeger and covered by countless singers essentially posits there being a time and place for all things. Spin bowling and particularly the finger one, is being challenged on both counts. Time and place. Modern Times may not belong to Twenty20 yet, but those days aren't too far. Unlike pitching in baseball, the bowlers face the ultimate humiliation of getting a 'thanks for coming' note from the crowdds, TV viewers and most dishearteningly from batsmen. With Adam Gilchrist already on record about the not too distant possibility of 400 plus totals being the norm, the times don't have the luxury of indulging the finger spinners. Can they bat at number seven? And...ahem...what about the fielding? Imaging these question being asked to the likes of Prasanna and Bedi. For them fielding was even more esoteric art than the one they plied. Although I am not too sure, but I have a feeling that if you add the number of runs these two greats scored and subtract them from the number of wickets they took, you might get a negative number. The bat perhaps hated being held by hands so much in love with the ball. So essentially, there is no place for them.
Ramesh Powar must be the unluckiest cricketer in the whole world. He has better batting crdentials tham both the gentlemen preferred over him and he may not give Herchelle Gibbs any sleepless nights in the 'best fielder' competition, but Anil Kumble would definitely have a few of those nights. Its a pity that he won't be going to West Indies.

Indian wrist spinners seemed to have gone to a hibernation like Rip Van Winkle since the sad and swift demise of Hirwani; Laxman Sivaramakrishnan before him. Whatever happened? Perhaps its their downfall coupled with the notion (prevalent during pre-Warne era) that ODIs do not require wrist spinners. Its sad, even to non-Indians, that India does not have Kumble's successor. It's about time you set up a 'spin foundation' by Shane Warne following the foot steps of 'MRF' Pace Foundation by Dennis Lillee.

Ramesh Powar is an old school magician.
But alas he's fat and dosent quite look good on T.V (dont even think about widescreens)
Imagine if you will a hot day in May 76 ,tuning onto the radio..Maybe Powar is from that era.
But he's my favourite.
A working class family man, bereft of any fashion sense and luck

Just a thought regarding the argument that finger spinners struggle because of the proliferation of one-day cricket and associated factors.

In the last few years, Marlon Samuels and Chris Gayle have played a crucial role for the West Indies with their off-spinners - neither is particularly effective in test cricket, but they do a very effective job in one-dayers.

In the English 20-20 competition, it's well known that in fact spinners in the mould of Gayle and Samuels have been the most effective bowlers.

I agree with Rohit that there is a time and a place for different types of bowlers to thrive - at the moment, the ideal orthodox finger-spinner for one-day cricket is probably not the classical type, but a different, more modern variety. In test cricket, though, the continued success of Vettori and the early success of Panesar and even Paul Harris of South Africa suggests that if you're good enough, you can still taste success as a classical orthodox finger-spinner.

There is a surfeit of one day cricket. 350+ totals are fast becoming the norm (Remember those Krish Srikkanth days when 250 was dead cert winning score!)20/20 is the future (ref. your previous blog!). To add insult to injury, rules favour the batsmen and the ICC announces a pitch enquiry after every low scoring match. Can you blame the bowlers if they just want to get through their quota of overs, finger and wrist skills be damned.

I agree. But then, sometimes fast bowlers are hard to find, sometimes leg-spinners and sometimes slow left-armers. I am not entirely sure Powar should play the World Cup, as players like him are good, but can't suddenly be in the World Cup. After the World Cup, he can-SHOULD- be tried and become a regular member of the squad. Along with his spin he can bat.
However, I don't think Murali Karthik should play. He didn't really impress much. And, as Kumble doesn't really spin the ball much, find a slow left arm bowler hose effect is the same as a leg-spinner's but he has more control.

When Harbajan and Kumble are gone india won't be able to win even in India. Face the truth, they will be good as England or should I say Bad as England.

Just a few months ago Piysuh Chawla made his debut as a teenager against England. It was almost a passing of the baton but sice tehn he ahs failed to prosper. The coaches who follow Team India everywhere must take part of teh blame for this. Young talent cannot be squandered like this.

well its really sad to see the dearth of spinners in our country. where have the likes of piyush chawla and amit mishra disappeared... well no one knws. the fact is that our over dependence on kumble and bhajji makes us forget them. why we even manage to overlook someone like ramesh powar consistently. this attitude needs to change. stop favoritism and we need to pick spinners who can turn the ball and the course of a match....

till then its RIP indian spinners

I agree with Rohit. There's time and place for everything. With modern times, cricket has changed a great deal, particularly in last 10-15 years. Bats have become better, so a mishit can carry the ball over the ropes as they too have been brought in, so as to accomodate more people. All this has had an effect on the physche of the bowler in his teens. He no longer wants to hone his skills in the art of spin bowling. The art has to be learnt the hard way. The control over flight, line,length does not come easy. With the advent of one day cricket, the grounds have become smaller , so are the hearts of spinners and captains too. A spinner can be effective on any pitch, if he can deceive a batsman in flight. And flighting the ball is the first thing the bowler stops doing in one day cricket for fear of getting a stick. "Stop the batsman from getting under the ball, fire'em in..." that's the mandate for the modern spinner. No wonder, he loses the art of flighting the ball in due course of time, and with it, the ability to spin too. What effective a spinner will be if he is not turning the ball? Kumble is an exception to the rule. He is not a bowler fitting into the classical defination of a spinner.
Only solution to have effective spinners is to make them play very selectively in the ODIs.Play them when surface is favourable otherwise let them display their wares only in tests, where the margin for error is much more. Then they will retain the art of flighting, spinning and getting the batsman out in mind first and then actually.

Yes, I do think that Romesh Powar is really a spinner having all the qualities that a classical off-spinner should posess. He has the flight,drift,turn and guile.I really like watching him play.Harbhajan is more dependent on bounce these days,forgetting how to flight a red cherry.

What is it with you and death? First the death of Indian Cricket and now the death of finger spinners. What's next? the death of backfoot drives, or the death of the leg glance? Hey, get out of this morbid obsession. Write about something positive man!!

20/20 is a load of rubbish and should be scrapped. I'm a wrist-spinner and when I play 25-overs (a side) matches I play as a bloody batsman. That's fine at amateur Sunday league level, but at an international level it's a disgrace. Also, in one-dayers you see bowlers miss leg-stump by half an inch and get called for bowling a wide. I am sick of the way bowlers are persecuted in the modern game.

Daniel Vettori is a wonderful bowler. I saw him take 6-for in an innings at the WACA with good attacking bowling because NZ had made a big target. Ultimately teams need to show faith in their spinners bowling opponents OUT - that is the best way to stop the runs.

Basically, we need less one-dayers and NO 20/20s.

It is certainly a concern that there is a dearth of good spinners in India despite most wickets favouring spinners. Same is the situation world over. I think one day cricket has taken its toll not only on the psyche of the spinners but also of the captains and made them more defensive in handling the spinners. I remember when India lost to Cronje's South Africa on a square turner in Mumbai 5-6 years back. Mural kartik made his debut in that match. He was by nature an attacking bowler who loved to flight the ball. However Tendulkar captaining India made him bowl over the wicket outside the leg stump (much before Hussain and Giles so Can'nt really blame them too much). This, when South africa needed 100 odd runs to win and had lost 6 wickets with nearly 30 runs required. If there was ever a case for spinners attacking from both ends, it was then. But Kartik was made to bowl defensively and he wan not used to it. He bowled an occasional loose ball which helped SA win that game. Sachin, when asked about these tactics said that he wanted Kartik to tie one end up for Kumble at the other end. Defensive mind sets at work.

One day cricket has really worn down the patience levels of captains, selectors, administrators and publics as far as spin bowling is concerned. Spin bowling is a tough art and needs a lot of patience on part of the bowler to mature. With odd faiures resulting in spinners getting dropped, there is a tendency on part of the spinners to play safe and just bown restrictive line and length rather than look for wickets.

However, the decline of the standard in domestic cricket in India is really alarming. Amit Misra, Piyush chawla, Ramesh Powar are only names that spring to mind but even they are not setting skies alight.

I think a focussed program is required to nurture spinners from young age on the same line as australian cricket academy or MRF pace foundation.

The decline in the standard of spin bowling worldwide in general and India in particular is no doubt because of the way the modern game is biased towards the batsman. The modern one day game is no place for a spinner - the pitch, smaller boundaries, heavy bats, 'powerplay' rules - all of them conspire against the spinner and force him to kill his conscience and bowl flatter, faster, fuller, thus reducing him to a javelin thrower.
The BCCI's decision not to have limited overs cricket for under 14 (?) was a welcome move. Ramesh Powar has in fact shown that a classical spinner can survive in the one day circus as well - it amuses me to see batsmen are bemused by his flight - they seem to have lost practice of playing a flighted ball. He, according to me, is a better spinner than Harbhajan since he uses his flight and turn to fetch wickets while Bhajji relies mainly on bounce and sharp turn 'off the pitch'.
Such spinners need to be encouraged, maybe by starting a spinners academy - I reckon there is already one in place - but spinners must be persisted with for some amount of time before expecting match winning hauls from them. Karthik is a case in point. I had quite high regard for him as a spinner - his only fault was he needed some sort of assistance from the wicket but he was a spinner who believed in buying his wickets- always the attitude you look for in a spinner.

Other than this, I reckon it is high time some decision is brought about for a minimum size of a cricket field.

I think the main difference is the type of bats that are used these days...batsmen can hit the ball out of the ground more effectively than say 20 years ago. Also, I don't think that slowing the ball down too much will work these days, unless the wicket's on the slower side or a little rough, so that it allows fast turn. I think the key is to flight the ball with a little bit of pace on it, perhaps around 80-85 kmph. That may sound like an oxymoron, but that's how it should work...and it should be given a real rip using the fingers...making finger spin as effective as wrist-spin.

Unfortunately, the one day cricket has killed the art of spin bowling. Which spin bowler is willing to flight the ball? In order to revivie the art, a separate format, like they have evolved 20/20, should be evolved in which only spin bowlers would operate and there would be no field restrictions. This is when we would get to see batsmen use their feet to meet the pitch of the ball (a la Hanumant Singh) and not depend on reflexes, hand eye coordination and just throw their bats at the ball using the bowlers pace to score runs.
I am from the old school which enjoys classical batting and bowling seen in the five day games.

Fast bowlers tend to be impact bowlers. They make and impact at the domestic level and when drafted into the national team they tend to make an impact in the first few games. Spinners on the other hand need the space and time to mature. The reason behind the demise of the 'Indian Spinner' can be traced directly back to the 80's when the huge upsurge in popularity of cricket in India as a result of television and the world cup win meant that it was only impact players that were encouraged. I remember L Sivaramakrishnan. The greatest Leg spinner of all time that never was? He had the intelligience and the craft but was his personal life that messed up his career. I remember Sadanand Viswanath keeping to L Siva and thinking that this would be the greatest combination of all time. Whatever happened to him?

It is strange really, the potential for a decent test class wrist spinner is probably greater than it has been for a long while in England..there are a couple of real talents. It is such a shame the average test wicket offers so little to spinners unless Murali-esque revolutions are put on the ball.

You forgot many a spinner like Nusheer Mehta, Mumtaaz Husien of Hyderabad much before Shivlal Yadav, VV Kumar of Tamilnadu, Dilip Joshi (als played in English Counties), Uday Joshi ( played for Sussex

The clear vaccum in the finer spinner's area could be a challenge for some of our youngsters dreaming to don the India colors. Shane Warne was one who came as an unknown and captured the attention of the whole cricketing world. He had no competition and he had all the attention on him. Added incentive to him was the Australian killer instinct which naturally spread to him being in the team. Any takers?

It would not be fair to criticize spinners alone, without looking at the broader context in which they find themselves in. Firstly, most of the spinners are pampered by dead pitches which turn square on day one. Obviously this means that they don't know what to do when it doesn't turn as much. So when they go out of India, they get smashed all over the park.
Secondly, TV has glamourized the fast bowler. Spinner is all very well, but deep down, all boys want to be that thundering tornado tearing the turf threatening the stumps with sheer pace and or bounce. An Anil Kumble or Harbhajan who has to plug away over after over, inning after inning, day after day is just not cool or manly enough. Heck, even overweight, unfit types like me want to charge up the track and hurl them at 140 kmph, instead of adopting the Romesh Powar tactic of getting into the Indian cricket team!!
Thirdly, one day cricket has no space for the aggressive spinner. A spinner, on non-helpful tracks has to work on the batsman's patience, maybe even give away the odd four or six, before he has him after careful planning and wiles. No chance of that in a 50 over slog-athon where you have to get through your 10 overs without being plastered all over the park. Also nobody wants a one-day pitch with a little bite and turn.
I suppose in one way this is good. We will, hopefully, in the near future, get a balance between tearaways and quality spinners who can take wickets on all surfaces. Till then, we have to sigh and wonder why Monty Panesar wastes himself for such a loser team...

Even though I'm not Indian myself I still think Mukul Kesevan's comment that Harbhajan Singh should be representing India at darts is absolutely diabolical and completely uncalled-for. Harbhajan Singh is a possible great bowler who's still developing his art - it is really good that he can spin the ball away from the right-handed batsman as well as into him. All Indian cricket fans should be fully behind Harbhajan Singh and giving him every support possible. The future of modern off-spin lies in those bowlers who can spin it both ways and we should celebrate that wholeheartedly and without reservation!

Is the dart Jibe at Harbhajan a comment on his action? If it is, it is a serious allegation from an indian journalist.
Anyway on the main topic, the death of the classical finger spinner is a direct reflection of the modern game. Heavier bats,shorter boundries and flatter pitches mean that bowlers won't make a successful career bowling finger spin, at least not the classical form. I beleive Saqlain was the best finger spinner of his generation. Leave his doosra aside he had all the attributes of a top class finger spinner at the start of his career. But the success of his doosra worked against him. He lacked enough guidance to ensure that his off spinner needed to be his stock ball and not the doosra. I think the fact that most finger spinners we see on the international scene are part timers mean that(the Shewags,Sachins,Jayasuriyas and the Shoib Maliks of this world) it is an art only effective against certain opposition on certain surfaces. And also the fact that players around the world are used to playing spinners than the days when the English batsmen played spinners only when they played India.

Quality spinners need a bit of bounce more than turn form the pitch. The low, slow pitches of India are in a way killing the real spinner. Murali kartik is a good spinner with chances that are few and far between.

I'm surprised to see no mention of Sunil Joshi . He had his moments in the sun as well. But Ganguly just dindt have faith in slow left armers . Kartik was reall at his peak around 2002 , but again he never enjoyed the confidence of Ganguly . An interesting part of this Ranji season was that most of the top wicket takers were fast medium or even medium pacers. but theres a few promising names, Piyush Chawla from UP, Ravi Jadeja from Saurashtra and R Ashwin ftom TN who got 31 wickets in just 4 games this season

I loved the way you said that bhajji singh should try darts instead. that was awfully funny man! Kumble is a revolution. he hardly spins the ball 10 degrees. infact his googly turns better than his conventional leg break. thats why his major weapons are top spinner, flipper, the wheezer, googly. in short, the variation of speed and bounce with a hint of spin. Bhajji was also a good 'spinner' like any other when he first came in. but then they said that he chucks...he spent time in the academy...with kumble...and lo we got another 'bouncy spinner'. These guys prowl on pitches with uneven bounce, but on a hard placid track bhajji specially gets a beating. Powar doesn't have any variety in his quiver, but he will develop more into a warne i presume that is - varying the degree of spin using subtle variations in the grip... instead of trying too many things. Except india and australia{as teams in whole} not everyone uses thier feet to spinners. if anyone can master that, then it is powar's doom. we all know what happened when sidhu danced down the track to warne in chepauk. to put it in sidhu's style: 'warne was as confused as a kid in a topless bar'[though i doubt that after last year's events in england]

There are indeed some prominent absentees .. notably L Sivaramakrishnan and Sunil Joshi. True they might not have been of same class as the glorious Quartet , ..even Dilip Doshi .. but they definitely had the raw deal ( as did Karthik). I agree though .. Powar apart, there has rarely been a genuine finger-spinner in Indian colors in a long long time. Considering the heavily skewered equation of the modern game towards batsmen, its unlikely that we'd persist with artists than someone like Yuvraj, Sehwag, or Harbhajan who intelligently fire fast, flat slowers at the pads. Even for Piyush Chawla who got instant fame with that googly which got Tendulkar, ... he'd do well to recover from the subsequent manhandling he got from the same man a year later. At the end of the day, its not about fingers, or wrists, flights or guile .. its about the heart. Not many evolve from 1/150 on debut to get to 700 test wickets !!

The attitude now is we donot care about spin .All we want is a win.So why bother if you have a spinner or a seamer

I still think Romesh Powar will play a big part in the future for India....especially in overseas tests where Harbhajan's Flat offspin (or darts whatever you want to call'em) won't work and powar's flight and guile will.
and coming to the death part of it....nothing's dying. Its just a matter of time before someone shows up and starts bowling very good finger spin.
That's what always in sports.

When you try to compare today's spinners with the spin quartet of the late 60's & early 70's, don't lose sight of the close-in fielding support they had - I remember hearing somewhere that for most batsmen facing these spinners, playing the ball towards short-leg was an absolute no-no - Solkar is standing there ! Do we hear anything similar about Indian fielding today ?

I would go one further and say that there has been a definite decline in the finger spin brand of offspin. You might still see a few left hand finger spinners like Nilesh Kulkarni and Murali Karthik. Finger offspin is on its deathbed in India.
Finger spin is an art that thrives on deception in flight unlike wrist spin, which relies on bite off the wicket. ODIs have ensured that even batsmen outside the subcontinent are bold enough to be twinkle toes. Bedi would have perished in ODIs but managed to play a few tests. Monty Panesar is testimony to the fact that good finger spin will thrive in the longer version.
As for the decline in quantity of spinners - there aren't too many Indian role models, who'd drive the kids' imagination aka Shane Warne. We'll soon have a cricket team like Pakistan's - full of bowlers of the faster variety. Go figure.

Bhajji and Murali may be wristy dart throwers, but their ware works well in the modern game - a lot better than the likes of Vettori and Powar.

Powar's success may make the difference between the life and death of classic spin (much as i doubt that), but his presence in the Indian line up at the expense of a honest quickie might just spell the doom for its world cup chances.

Powar has not accomplished anything that Murali Kartik did not and I am sure you ll soon be making fun of his red goggles much as you mock the beads adorned by Kartik.

Panesar's inept batting and fielding augurs well for the game? I understand you don't want cricket to lose its romantic charm, but stopping the modernisation of the game and development of all round players is not the solution to it.

Murali Kartik has potential I'd say but one- day cricket has blighted any possible chances he might have had.

I can understand those glory days of Indian spinners. My dad saw Erappalli Prassna in that test match in Madras when we had Australia at 24/6 and in his eyes probably the finest spell of spin bowling. I think there has been a genuine purpose to harness fast bowling talent with the belieft that they will win us matches in all our away tours and the like. The last few years have seen Zaheer, Nehra, Agarkar, Balaji,Patha, Munaf and countless others. On the other hand only Kartik has featured recently for India in test matches while Pawar should feature soon I believe as well. But after our few successes abroad, pace is the name of the game by the looks of it.

Good point by Aditya - One notable point about the original article, well-written as it was, is that there was no reference to the actual domestic scene in India - who are the best you spinners, and why are should they be considered insufficient in their abilities. The only way to answer this question is to follow Ranji Trophy and other domestic competitions, something even allegedly fervid Indian cricket usually fail to do.

Soon we will be playing 20/20 and then the finger spinners will really be dead. We play approximately 100 ODIs a year and maybe 6 test matches.

If Dinesh Kaneria had his way he would also take up whatever it needs to make it into the ODI squad. Macgill can twirl away in the Sheffeild Sheild games. Powar can twirl away in teh Ranjoi Trophy next year ( and watch the world cup on TV with the rest of us). So what is the incentive forr a youngster to take up finger spin. Who wants finger spin and more important who wants to be a finger spinner.

I dont think it's that countries don't have finger spinners , just that they are not respected . I think coaches and teams prefer use batsmen to fill the roles. Maybe they see finger spinners as just containers and see wrist spinners as wickettakers. Therefore play the batsman who can bowl a bit. I think this is what happened here in the Caribbean and may be happening in India now.

I am surprised nobody mentioned Sunil Joshi and Raguram Bhat, both incidentally from Karnataka. In my humble opinion they were the finest finger spinners after Prasanna, Venkat and Doshi. Sunil JOshi did a good job with the ball in his short stint in one-dayers. For some reasons, he was projected as an alorunder and when he failed with the bat (as he often did)it weighed heavily on his selection. Raguram Bhat played one or two tests and bowled well to be never picked up again. As in life some get repeated chances and some none!!

I don't agree with the fact the Indian spinner is dead. There are a few names coming up, Rajesh Pawar (Baroda) and R Ashwin (TN) got a good haul this season, both were in the top 6 of the highest wicket takers in the super league. Then there is Karnataka's K P Appanna (SLA), he is just 18, had a decent debut season and going by the various reports looks to be a good prospect.
Shed the nostalgia and face the facts, there is no place in cricket now for the so called "classical" spinner. If you don't evolve with the times, you die, as simple as that. I think its just stupid people discussing the classical spinners' flight etc.. when people are hitting every ball out of the ground, you want to keep flighting the ball?!!
Things are loaded against the bowler now and only the intelligent bowler will survive, wether you bowl fast or slow. Vettori is successful coz he is highly intelligent, thinks quickly, adapts to the situation.
The so called spin quartet was more hype than anything. Compare the number of matches India won coz of them with what Kumble has won for India. Bishen Bedi wouldn't have played more than a couple of tests if he were playing today and its high time India (as well as Mumbai) chucks Ramesh Pawar out. He has been playing for so long now and that tubby bitch refuses to shed those spare tires !!

Murali Kartik, Anil Kumble aside, is the best spoinner in India and has been atrociously treated and utlized. Day in day out he has proved to be the best spinner in Ranji and he just needs an extensive run. Cue Bedi, who you celebrate in your article, he is the 'best left arm spinner in the world. It is much easier to perform when, like Vettori, you know you are going to bowl a third of the overs and you know there is no one to replace you.

The modern bats, and boundary ropes set closer, seem to be probably the major factors. The bats these days are incredible - as long as one gets it somewhere on the face its 12 rows back.

I like Powar too - but he's not going to run through a side like Kartik can.

Great point, Jonathan. I think we in India have a habit of either hero-worshipping or demonizing players, forgetting that they are human beings too. Harbhajan is an excellent bowler, and when on form he can run through any lineup in the world. The Indian team and fans should give him support whenever he fails, because we know that he can bounce back.

if you say harbhajan is throwing darts, what about murali?? he looks like some guy throwing out frisbee's in the air.. i would agree with you about powar, he is a much better bowler than harbhajan in one-dayers plus he bats well, i would pick up powar in place of harbhajan in one dayers.. once kumble leaves, we will struggle to win even a single test.. in the recent past, there seem to be a dearth of everything when it comes to indian cricket:

allrounder (never hrd of)
spinners (none after harbhajan)
quality batsmen (none after yuvraj, even he is inconsistent)
fast bowlers (none world class except kapil and srinath)

way 2 go team India.. guess again we need to finger point at the selection and the grooming process..

After seeing how batsmen like Sachin, Dravid and Dhoni dismantled Chawla (who some considered as the next great hope) and other spin bowlers in the Challenger Trophy, I felt that in today's batsman-oriented era, can true finger spinners really succeed? There is a dearth of international-quality finger spinners probably because its not encouraging to be hit freely by batsmen of international caliber

And on the topic of left arm spinners...how about BCCI grooming Pragyan Ojha of Hyderabad?

I know your next article's gonna be on death of the "New Indian quicks" and we'll argue about why only our quicks start at 140kph and - in the name of line and length - start bowling sub-120s, the way Pathan and that old-warhorse (ehm..) Munaf Patel are bowling these days.

Back to the post, I think the truth of the matter is that the same regions in the world of cricket that led to spinners prospering have ld to the demise of spinners. Yes, a couple of Englishmen and Warne and Vettori were good for a change, but the real nursery for spinners has always been the subcontinent, perhaps to a lesser extent the Caribbean. However, by celebrating the Tendulkars (well, on almost all news sites these days, he is equally debated, but still he was really good), the Anwars, the Jayasuriyas and the DeSilvas, we've ensured that spinners cannot propser. Not everyone is a Murali who can tweak the ball, and not every Saqlain has one variation to build his reputation on. This might seem counter-intuitive, but I believe if we would have had faster and bouncier pitches, not so many average spinners would wear national colors and be belted out of the park so often. By practising their trade on pitches that don't turn square, aspiring spinners would then realise what it means to "turn" the ball and would work on many more variations than simply waiting for the surface to crack up on the first afternoon. Perhaps that is the reason why Warne and vettori don't need to prove their class "overseas" - yes, Indians have played both quite comfortably but they have been successful even in conditions not conducive to spin bowling. Panesar claimed eight wickets not on the fifth afternoon on SCG or Kanpur but on the WACA pitch. Vettori often has to bowl on the same Wellington rubber-board that has pacemen salivating the moment itineraries are announced.
The recent pitch in Mumbai for the Ranji finals was the best I've seen for a long time in India - the ball swung, there was good bounce and carry and eventually it settled into a good batsmen friendly pitch on day four, with signs it would have suited the spinners to the hilt on day 5 were the match to go that distance.
I believe we must produce more pitches that stay firm on days 1 through 4 and start turning late on day 4. We'll then have a good crop of pacemen who learn to use swing and seam, while developing spinners who can win us matches without waiting for the pitch to crack up on day 5.

As one magician disappears into retirement, another will eventually rise. Thus it continues. Before Warnie, there was outcry about the dead art of legspin. Post Warnie, the art of legspin is somewhat revived. Surely the same can be said about Monty? His verve for the game is similar to Warne's, and whilst he might lack in pure genius, he makes it up in enthusiasm! Look, cricket is an old sport and there will be times where the 'greats' will not be gracing the cricket field. It is also important to remember that no player starts as a great. It takes time, wickets and experience. Finger spinners are around, we just don't know about it yet. Dan Cullen of Australia, Jeetan Patel of New Zealand & Romesh Powar of India are all very capable international quality finger spinners. Add Monty to this mix and i'm sure that finger spinning, much like wrist spinning in the early 90's, will become 'cool'. Watch out for Dan Cullen...his attitude to cricket and his outright aggresiveness will allure him to many a youngster. I'm sure just as Harbhajan begins thinking about retiring, good ol India will produce a finger spinner of some note. So what next? With the impending retirements of Tendulkar, Lara and eventually Ponting...will the new article be titled 'Is the batting demi-god obsolete'?

I think Indian cricket finds itself in danger of doing to spinners what England did to would-be all-rounders. We are going down the road of attempting to find the "new Kumble", the "new Bedi", etc. instead of allowing youngsters to develop their own persona, style and strengths. We should be nurturing any talent, rather than just the types that fit into pigeon-holes.

All this stuff about Vettori is nonsense. He had a reasonable tour of Australia 6 years ago, but his average over the past 5 years is close to 50. Yes, that's with the ball not the bat. Over-rated trundler. Wouldn't play tests for any team bar a New Zealand team that hasn't had a good spinner in living memory.

When I read this article, I first searched for maninder Singh, who I think was the best left armer, comapred to the likes of sunil joshi, raju, shastri etc. Any idea why he was dropped out after such a promising start, anyone? Well I think he had more than just a start, played regularly from 83 to 88 and then suddenly disapeared. I used to like watching his game as a kid.

watching ramesh powar bowl on a 4th day wankhede wicket against bengal , i agree that good finger spinners are a endangered species in india

Ramesh Powar in the same league as Prasanna? What have you been smoking, Mukul? Prasanna was a master of guile; he would beat batsmen with flight and loop, lure them out and bamboozle them with turn, bounce and the occasional floater. Ian Chappell said of him that he made it seem as if there was a string attached to the yo-yo that he spun in the direction of the batsman. After his return from self-imposed exile (1962-67), Pras took 95 wickets in 15 tests as everyone but the English weather succumbed to his wares. Powar is a faint shadow of Prasanna. To mention their names in the same breath is an act of high sacrilege. On a fourth day pitch at the Wankhede, Powar was utterly neutered by Bengal's batsmen only yesterday. Prasanna would have run rampant, even at the fag end of his career.

There was one spinner called AnandaPadmanaban from Kerala who used to get lot of wickets in Ranji Trophy but was forgot competing with Anil Kumble for a place in the Indian Team.Similar to Kumble style he was also not a big spinner of the ball but used his height to a greater advantage

Spinning is not easy.Quality spinners rule both forms of the game. Murali and Warne has the class and nature of the wicket never hurts them. It is high time we accept we don't have class spinners. Both harbajan and Kumble are below average and they have no impact in a match and never consistent since they lack clas. t is futile including them in the team, There job can be managed by sehwag, sachin and yuvi. That chuby Romesh powar make some sense. But i don't think he will find a place in the WC squad. We will pack the team with the same old kumble and harbajan until they attains the age of supr anuation. That is the plight of Indian Cricket. Players will groom and grow when there is enough space for them to branch out. Ganerations may change but Kumble and Harbajan will be there in the team This will definitely spoil our sport. Youngsters will not develop themselves into good spinners since they know that they will not find a place in the team ahead of these oldies. We are facing a crisis which the West Indies have once faced, when all the layers where talented at the era of richards there were no space for new faces and the youngsters turned their atention to foot ball, resulting lack of talents after the exit of the legends.

I think your jibe at Harbhajan was unnecessary. Also you mention that Harbhajan Singh as essentially a wrist spinner, which is incorrect. Harbhajan is primarily a finger spinner.

Coming to the main point, I agree that Indian finger spinners have been in decline since the glory days of the famed "spin-quartet". Murali Karthik seemed to be a decent spinner in one-dayers in 2003-04, but was taken apart by Hayden and Langer in the Sydney Test in January 2004. Powar seems to have had a decent run in ODI's last year, yet may not make it to the World Cup squad because of the selectors' decision to take only 2 spinners to the Caribbean. Around the world, there are very few "good" finger spinners. Panesar and Vettori are probably the 2 best left arm spinners in operation. Zimbabwe had a decent left arm spinner Ray Price, before their cricketing problems started. Paul Harris seems to be a decent left arm orthodox spinner for South Africa. I do feel that there are good finger spinners but the media do not give them the kind of coverage that tearaway quicks like Lee, Akhtar and Malinga get.

Tendulkar, Sehwag, Jayasuriya, Gayle and Samuels are at best stop-gap options, primarily to fill the 5th bowlers slot in one-dayers. However, they do not primarily have a wicket-taking role and hence you will see that they rarely bowl too many overs in Test matches. (Sehwag in the West Indies last year was an exception to the norm) I think finger spinners have generally been restricted to a containing job in one-dayers. Saqlain Mushtaq was a lone exception of a wicket-taking spinner in ODI's.
I think the advent of 20-20 will mean more misery for the finger spinners :-( Probably captains will not bother having any spinners in their squad for 20-20 matches.

The presence of two established spinners in Kumble and Harbhajan (and the part-time abilities Sehwag and Sachin) in the team , there haven't been too many chances for other spinners to stake a claim.

Besides Powar, another impressive spinner is Rajesh Pawar, who's moved from Mumbai to Baroda. He loves to flight the ball and has been performing pretty well over the last couple of seasons and has been rewarded with a spot in the long-list of World Cup probables.(a full seven years after making the India A side) But then ,in the eyes of the national selectors, at 27, he's probably past his sell by date and is unlikely to be provided an opportunity at the highest level.

Another worrying sign is that the bowling action of two of India's most promising young finger spinners, Rajesh Sharma and Mohnish Parmar, have been deemed to be suspect. Hopefully, their bowling doesn't suffer once their action has been sorted out.

Personally, being a fan of that rarest of bowling species, chinaman bowlers, I'll be interested to see how Pragyan Ojha develops.

Mr.Kesavan if harbhajan should be represnting india in darts then according to Mr Holding most sucessful international bowlers should be doing something else as well, agreed spin cupboard is Thin in india roght now but spring will come after winter..murali kartik did not set the world alight but many belive that had he been given a decent run and backing he would have made a very good bowler if not great..we are wrongly obsessed with turn when evaluating spinners..Powar is good but is not a bowler/player whom u can play in all conditions..Anil and singh are more than enough for a world cup...the likes of amith mishra piyush chawla ravinder jadeja(u-19) will emerge in 1-2 years..try not to be so negative and obsesed with DEATH or one of us fans would be penning an article that says "DEATH OF SENSIBLE CRICKET WRITERS" (btw neville cardus et all are no more)good luck

We need class spinners like Bedi, prasanna, Chandra & Venkat, after their era , we haven't seen a class spinner like these quadrant, i belive Vekitapathy Raju & Shivlal yadev was our last of the same class or less than former, now a days most of the spinners not flighting the ball only flat deliveries the are bowling, no one deviating the batsman with his flights, we have to do something to get best spinners

Article is really interesting. One day games have really killed the attitude of a spinner. You very rarely see now a days spinners flighting or giving air to the ball. This is beacuae of restrictive roll a spinner had to play in a 50 over match which is played abundently now a days.A spinner now a days does not have much options nor the freedom to try out or experimentation for the fear of being hit out badly and thus loosing his chances for selecting for the next game. The format and the nature of pitches that are being offered for a one day game are not very condusive for a spinner and I am sure there is no place for Bedis or prasannas could not have been survived now a days. We appriciate their achievments based on their test performances where they are being their to purchase a batsmen out than to restrict. That is the reason, a Test cricket can produce better spinners. One day games produce many a run a mill medium pacers who are a bit of bowlers, a bit of batsman and a bit of fieldsmen. You see everything a bit only none complete. Naturally you shall find the disappearance of quality tweakers. ofcourse, there are some exceptions and exemptions like Share Warne and Muralidharan.

I think the problem is the diet. Indians are eating too much non-veg food these days. Get back to good old food for good old skills.

On a serious note, this is typical problem with us as a society. Cry for what is not there rather than work on what is. A team like Australia was good then and is better now. Our problem is that we get real champions few and far between and even then they do not get us enough consistent wins. Hence the permanent hangover and nostalgia.

Spin bowling and hockey skills have faced a similar fate. They have not survived the changes for we were too enamored by the art of it to notice the change in the environment. We have failed completely at reinventing and repackaging those skills to the requirements of the changed environment.

Let’s focus on the skills at hand. Pick the best from the available pool and try to change with the times. If it calls for abandoning old skills and changing with the times what’s the problem!

VS please don't dismiss the spin quartet as hype. Chandra won matches for India in Sydney and the Oval, Prasanna was hailed as the best spinner in the world by Ian Chappell and took stacks of wickets in New Zealand and Australia, Bedi was rated as one of the most difficult bowlers to face by no less a man than Barry Richards (the man Sir Donald Bradman referred to as the best opening batsman he had ever seen). Their one big advantage over Kumble was that they actually spun the ball instead of relying on uneven bounce in deteriorating pitches. And if we are talking about all rounders, what about the incomparable Salim Durranni, magician with bat and ball and wrist and finger? He makes the modern all rounders look like what they are - bits and pieces merchants without a craft to hone.

I completely agree with the many comments praising Ramesh Powar. He truly is a throwback to EAS Prasanna (who was on a completely different level to the disciplined but prosaic Venkat). Powar is to Harbhajan what Pras was when compared to Venkat - an artist baiting the batsman with flight, toying with the batsman by inducing uncertainty and desperation, entangling the batsman in knots of mental anguish with subtle variations, utilising drift and guile far more effectively than the doosra (aptly characterised as darts throwing). Powar is the past of Indian bowling - let us hope he is also the future - a forlorn hope perhaps but something to cling on to in the contemporary climate where atheleticism and all round pragmatism are prized above skill and purity.

Indeed the most refreshing thing about Powar is his Olympian eschewal of the doosra, which he rightly rejects as an implement unworthy of a craftsman in the classical mould. IMHO, it is the obsession with the doosra which is singlehandedly responsible for the demise of right arm off spin bowling in the world. Bowlers who don't know how or don't want to bowl it are dismissed as lacking versatility and not taken seriously by coaches, batsmen and spectators. The fruit of Saqlain's invention and Murali's exploits has been to stigmatise the art of off spin as an archaism.

History repeats itself, as Marx said, first as tragedy and then as farce - it will take the disappearance of off break bowling to create a new generation of batsmen who don't know how to play it, laying the foundation for a revival of the once-glorious muse of anti-clockwise lateral deception.

Harsh comment on Murali Karthik - he doesn't exactly get used in the most effective manner. I don't think the spinner is dying in India but everywhere else in the world. Warne and Murali did wonderfull things for cricket but they have got young players trying to bowl a delivery that no one has seen before (ala Paul Adams) rather than concentrating on the basics of line, length, turn and flight.

spin sucks since warne left

Mukul Keshavan is a good writer and I do agree he has written some fantastic coloumns. I defer to some of the points mentioned in the article. I'm not going into any particular points and discet it. I read the article and said to myself good cricketers have bad days in the field and so is he having with the pen. I'm sure he has got the potential to turn around and produce a great article next time around .... Till them pals lets forgive him for the good he has done so far. Another small note ... in all the heat of arguments we have forgotten one good spinner by the name of Maninder Singh .........ciao

Spinners who do not spin the ball big have no place in world cricket today, be it finger spin or wrist. I haven't seen our greats bowl , but I think that they would have faced a tough time today. What we need is a strong wrist spinner with bounce and 2 fast bowlers who can bowl really quick.

We have never been able to produce genuine quicks because we have been looking in the wrong places. What we need is for coaches to tell students to forget line and length and bowl as fast as humalny possible. Once there is pace the bowler can be moulded. keeping track of the speed gun is essential as once the bowler starts to lose pace, it becomes very difficult to gain it back.

We need a full time fast bowling coach and I am not talking about Venkatesh Prasad here. We need people who understand genuine fast bowling and what it takes. Ranji matches should be played with the bowler with the highest average speed given some sort of a bonus.

I think the same can be done with spin. The bowler who can put th emost revs on a ball should be awarded though I don't know how this can be done.

It is not the skill that is lacking. What is important here to realize is that cricket at the top level is more of a mental game. Spinners need to be always used as an attacking option. Perhaps it would help if we pick a bowler as a captain rather than a batsman every single time (except Kapil). A spinner encouraged by an attacking field will have his tail up and can do some damage. It just kills me to see a spinner bowling in an ODI with a spread out field.

Wonderful to see someone from the subcontinent to finally admit that harbhajan is better suited to darts. Am from there too so please spare the vitriol. Murali with his action cannot be restricted to a dartboard. As Bedi memorably said...he is a javelin thrower.

Cricket, be it test cricket or ODI, is always a contest between the bat and ball. I believe that a good spinner can at always be effective, even against batsmen looking slog him out of the park. But I guess it's that much more a difficult art and it's hard to find quality finger spinners who can outfox batsmen in ODI cricket. The dearth is not in the art but in the people practising it. Even on the wickets of Australia and England, Monty Panesar is making waves in both forms of the game. The dearth of spinning talent in India but be a direct result of the surfeit of the 70s. Somehow the image of Indian bowlers as fat unathletic spinners must have moved the younger generation towards the 'cool' atheletic fast bowling.Consider that for all his art, Powar is nowhere near being the star that Sreesanth has become.

Hoe true, Isaac. Kesavan may not last long enough in the profession but surely he sullies it. Besides making crass remarks about Harbhajan, he harks back into eras he doesn't know or understand. bad day at the office indeed.

If Indian spin bowling is in terminal decline, it means the future is bleak for India. They are not producing quicks of international calibre, and if they lose the slow bowlers too, wins will become a rarity even at home.

From a non Indian perspective, I feel that the Indian press and fans put too much pressure of young spinners like Chawla, who simply crumble under the pressure of 1 billion oggling eyes, watching there every move and crucifying each mistake they make.

Its a shame if Indian spin bowling does go into terminal decline, as the rest of the world seems to be unearthing decent spinners. Danish is well established now, Vettori as mentioned, Monty grows with each game...

Iam confused, I thought that the regular Leg-spinners (A.L.A Shane Warne, Shiva, Qadir) are called Wrist Spinners.
Harbhajan is a off-spinner (right arm) - it means he is a finger spinner not a wrist spinner.

one more blast of tepid gas from MK.

With respect I think the intent of the writer is self evident from the titles of his blogs. This and the last one The Strange Death of Indian Cricket indicate an attempt attract attention by being sensational. Nothing wrong with it if only it had substance to match it. Anyone can do it.

The comments that you've written about Harbhajan Singh tell me that either you seriously dont know your stuff. And my dear friends, talking about records - just have a look at the records of the spinners of those times and the Indian spinners now - you'll realize that the present ones are much better.

Bad on Cricinfo's part to include such a hollow article on their blog and publicize it.

finger spinner or a wrist spinner. It doesnt matter! india needs one more quality spinner. Kumble soon will retire. harbhajan is a excellent test spinner. I would say bring in the spinner who is the most attacking spinner in ranji trophy. Piyush chawla comes to mind. He is very calm, composed and bowls with a lot of accuracy. Need to get him in the test squad. Its just the matter of time that he and harbhajan would contribute wholly to the indian cricket.
You need to have a look at the spinners attitude. If there are more defensive spinner ala giles like than no one from the younger generation would pick up spin bowling. But when the spinners attack ala warne types, than you would see young guys picking up and trying to bowl leg spin.
So the point is "All is not lost MK".
Plus the spinners can never go out of equation in atleast test cricket because that degree of variation in the modern game is a MUST.

It's really shocking to noate that the writer has missed Manindar Singh's name here ! Apart from class spinners like Bedi, prasanna, Chandra & Venkat of earlier era and Kumble and Harbhajan in today's time , Manindar singh is the only spinner who has won matches for India.
Be fair with him !

Even Bedi & Chandra?? Prasanna??? in their last years received thrashing from Zaeer Abbas,MajidKhan,Asif Iqbal in thePakistan tour.Let us admit the fact other teams improved their technics in playing spin and we continue to live in past glory.as far as Muralidharan is concerned,it is a tragedy he is allowed to bowl despite being a "Perfect Chukker".Harbhajan's era as great bowler ended with the tour of India by Steve Waugh's team.Now he is TREATED AS AN ORDINARY BOWLER BY ALMOST ALL THE RIVAL TEAMS,SAVE NABIBIA OR HOLLAND.Let the people who matters nurture uyung talents like Piyush Chawla

We don't have as many talented finger-spinners anymore and we could safely attribute that to the popularity (and dominance) of ODI cricket and its constantly increasing favouring of batsmen. Another reason could be the general disinclination of Ganguly and Dravid to play 2 spinners in ODIs (we had a few matches where they played 4 quicks in India in a few ODIs!)

However Powar does seem really good, and let's give him time to develop further. After WC we'll probably also try out Karthick and the rest again. And if not in ODIs, there will always be a stage for such artists in Test cricket. The comment about Harbhajan being a wrist spinner did flummox me though!?

Also here's a take on Kumble vs Harbhajan in the upcoming World Cup, and who should be preferred. Do leave your comment!

Get your priorities right ! For years, Indian punits have been complaining about their team's lack of competetiveness outside Sub-continent and lack of resources in fast bowlers. Emergence of stylish fast bowlers across the border and setting up of MRF pace foundation results in current crop of never ending fast/medium-fast bowling resources. Now you are complaining of lack of spinners, what do you want to be? Australia with both Warne and Macgrath? Sorry mate, not possible. This is current lot of fast bowlers is a change in trend, and it has taken helluva lot time to happen. Bowling fast is in, hip and fashion. Fast bowlers are comercial, sexy and give an adrealine rush. That is why youngsters want to be a fast bowler. If you want to take a U-turn in your policy, start spreading dust tracks and set up a foundation for spinners. In ten years time, Powar will become a cult fashion statement and will have a legacy u asipire. But without any success outside sub continent.

yes,i will definately agree with the writers openion on indian spin department.spin bowling is the main ace for india in international cricket.present situation of indian spin department is not good because anil kumble is in his career ending,but we have certain young players who are presenting spin dept like piyush chawla,ravindra jadeja,pragnan ojha are performing very well in domestic level. all they need is a perfect exposure in international level to brought back the traditional spin art,because we all should keep one thing in mind is that shane warne was given morethan 150 runs and taken just one wicket on his debue.but he has got very good exposure after all that and became the first bowler to reach 700 wickets milestone.

As long as a dominant spinner is in the team, the talents of other spinners are not exposed. That's the reason we have Anil Kumble for India, Muralitharan for Sri Lanka, Shane Warne for Australia, Vetori for Newzealand, Saqulain Mustaq for Pakistan and so on. Why is there no two greats in a team??????????? Mac Gill was defenitly a great spinner for Australia, but he is unfortunate to be in the same era of Shane Warne. Otherwise Australia could have produced an another great spinner.
So we do not need to worry about our future spinners. When young talents are exposed in the international arena, we will automatically find class players. If Azharudhin and Jadeja are still playing, the talents of Kaif and Yuvraj wouldn't have been exposed. When people go people come.

When Gavaskar was playing, if you were thinking that after Gavaskar, the strange death of Indian team would occur, you are wrong. Who could have thought about the calibre of Rahul Dravid. If ysterday was for Gavaskar, today is for Dravid and the future will be for somebody else. So stop writing about the future. You could be wrong

Its no point comparing two eras. As cricket of the 60's and 70's has changed to unrecognizable levels and even the greats of yester years would perhaps fail to hold their own today...what with small boundaries , better equipment and batsman friendly pitches. The soluition could be in reverting back to uncovered wickets and bowler friendly pitches which would make only the really skillful batsmen prosper and make low scores the norm. In my opinion a low scoring test match is exciting through out and will lead to ressurgence of the art of slow bowling. Powar today is like a breath of fresh air who believes he is a bowler and the time between overs is meant for getting your breath back rather than chasing the ball and soiking your clean flannels. May his tribe grow it will only serve cricket better .

I must add that Chawla is currently captaining India under 19 in New Zealand on a tour. His talent is not being squandered, but being allowed to develop away from the spotlight, something indians are not well known for.

At least you ensure your column is read and commented upon and not facing 'death' as most of the Indian cricket scene. (death of cricket, death of finger spinner, death....)!!

I'd like to see Ramesh Powar make his test debut as soon as possible. He's far more likely than Harbhajan to get wickets on a flat deck. What I'd really love to see, though, is two spiiners playing at all times for India, and three on a turner. I believe that our strength and uniqueness still lies in spin, and we've been trying to be some other team for far too long, believing that our pedestrian third seamers will do more damage than a second spinner abroad. We'd do well to play like an Indian team, and not attempt to duplicate whatever the Australians, English, South Africans or Pakistanis do.

Friends..... Friends ...... what are we all talking about? Could you name one bowler who in the history of cricket did not have a bad day in the field? Joel Garner, Malcom Marshall, Shane Warne, Muralitharan (i defer comments from Srivatsan on his views, he is a champion and a flag bearer of spin bowling), Bedi, Thommo, Lillie, Quadir, Saqulain and many more at some point of their career were trashed and kicked out of the attack. They proove they are champions by bouncing back (Like I’m sure MK will bounce back with a gem of a article). Do you expect all bowlers to come and deliver the goods and take all 10? Why do we then have 5 fulltime bowlers a team? One can do the job if you expect the perfect to be delivered. Leave alone 1 or 2 occasional bowlers.

What I'm trying to point out is spinners in India will be produced and it will not die. The names like Piyush, Ashwin (TN) have shown a lot of impact. They should be immediately identified and nurtured. Lamenting over the names of the past will bring us no good, at the same time thinking that the breed of spinners are history is also too premature. (MK this is where I differ from your PoV)

One more issue; Bedi, indeed is a great bowler but I guess he is still afraid to accept Murali as a champion, because he still is considered as the greatest in the subcontinent and he does not want to pass the mantel on, he wants to come with him to his grave. It’s a question of being childish and not accepting reality. They are in the cricket team because they have the talent and are SELECTED no one walks into the team or be dropped into the team from the skies above. If he is a Javlline thrower he will be in the Sri Lankan T&F team not wearing cricketing colours. Let’s all get a life, stop worrying over things that might or might not happen in the future and enjoy the wonderful cricketing season ahead.

You seem to imply that there's no role for slow bowlers in the one-day game. I must respectfully disagree. Sri Lanka won their World Cup with their slow strangulation of the Aussies. Murali, Warne, Vettori have all done wll in ODIs. And Jayasuriya remains a valued player for Sri Lanka as much for his slow left armers as for his explosive betting. But worldwide there does seem to be a dearth of top class spinners. Perhaps this is because the initial effort to become a good spinner is much more than the initial effort needed to hurl a ball fast and our instant gratification fed youngsters don't have the requisite patience to develop that skill.

Bedi once joked that India produced good spinners because Gandhiji was a good spinner! Oh how the times have changed ! Is it a mere coincidence that Gandhian values are as obsolete as the Indian finger spinner ? Hope, Gandhiji is not turning in his grave!

The dearth of finger spinners at the moment is role models, or rather the lack of them at the present moment.Youngsters like to mould themselves after whoever their stars are or whatever they see on tv.There seem to be alot of wrist spinners nowadays,unlike maybe a decade ago, this is primarily because people who have learnt their wares have grown up watching the likes of Shane Warne,Anil Kumble,Danish Kaneria, etc. operate with great success. I am sure if there are even a couple of finger spinners who can make it big over the next few years, they will act as role models for the next generation of spinners. After all, for any youngster who dreams of making it cricket, seeing is believing.

Denial! I think this article reeks of that more than anything else. I guess there are people out there who refuse to accept the fact that the game has changed and that we cannot go back to rest days, and slow over rates anymore. The era of the spinner who flights it into orbit only to watch batsmen bat back half volleys is gone and any spinner who lives in that illusion does so at his own peril. Why can't we stop blaming heavy bats and short boundaries for one? Its the mindset where the most change has occured. Sure, Bedi might've taken as many wickets as he did then, but he sure as hell would've been more expensive. Its time to snap out of the nostalgia and move on. Figures of 27-17-10-0 are NEVER happening again. Its time to accept that. Once and for all ...

Friends, its really a problem with cricket administration in India..when the history says that India has won matches because of its spinners more than its medium pacers, so why not norture and give more chances to buddying spin talents like Piyush chawla..I strongly believe spin is something more natural to Indians than pace....so its high time that the cricket administrators also give some important to nurturing real good spinners along with nurturing pacers which offcourse they r trying to do...Doing so i believe...time is not far away when India could well have spinners of the quality of Warne,Saqlin,Murali n Kumble playing in Indian colours...Amen

Finger spinners have won us a lot of tests before..but I think the days of the finger spinner in the longer version of the game is done and finished for good..Part time spinners like Sehwag and Tendulakr, if they do bring some discipline in thier game will prove quite a handful..What we need is a good wrist spinner..someone in the mould of Shane Warne(That's too much of an ask..) or even Kaneria..Harbhajan disapponts with his lack of flight and guile..He's only throwing them fast and flat and not getting purchase even on Indian wickets..In an already susceptible and fallible batting lineup with a specialist spinner coming in we weaken the team more..I think Sehwag should be nurtured as a spinner and so should the likes of Yuvi and Tendulkar take them seriously..Need of the hour is players who can contibute well in two or more departments..I'm sure with Sehwag and Tendulkar honing thier skills that void would be filled up..

Meant to include this link at the end of my last comment...
www.ofallthegamespeopleplay.blogspot.com
Kumble vs Harbhajan

A take on who India SHOULD choose to play between Kumble and Harbhajan. And IT IS PERTINENT because of the reluctance of the managememnt in the last 3-4 years to play 2 spinners in ODIs.

The majority of batsmen are right-handed and the majority of test and one-day pitches these days are not predominantly spin-friendly but either flat or seam-friendly. This is why the modern offspinner needs to and should be encouraged to develop a doosra (or some other ball such as a leg-break that spins away from the batsman) to complement the offbreak's spin into him. These days, only left-arm orthodox spinners like Murali Kartik, Vettori & Panesar can get away with spinning the ball only in one direction (away from the rh batsman) because, as it is delivered from wide on the bowling crease, their arm-ball naturally swings into the batsman and potentially beats the inside edge of the bat.

That is the reality of playing on predominantly good Test and one-day pitches; the offspinner needs to spin the ball in both directions to be consistently effective, the left-arm spinner can remain effective by just turning the ball away from the rh batsman provided he has a decent arm-ball in his armoury. So those of you who prefer so-called "classical" spin bowling can enjoy the left-armers while those of us, like me, who love modern off-spin bowling can revel in the likes of Murali, Harbhajan and other such magical artists who ooze natural talent and are able to deceive a batsman in a way that is wonderful to watch!

Spinners are a luxury in ODIs. India will be the only team perhaps having 2 specialist spinners in the team..and that will be a key reason why we will not impress ( leave alone win) in the WC .....for WI samuels and Gayle bowl 20 overs for less than 100 runs..at least against india...and invariably take 1-2 wkts....thats a better record compared to bhajo + kumble recently. Pak have 9 bats ( after incldng azhar mahmmod) , so do SA , so do Aus and NZ ...WI have bravo, gayle, samuels .....and india hasnt got 1 decent allrounder who can bowl 10 overs ......why we are not bowling sehwag and ganguly is a mystery .....we dont need to pick sreesanth....we shud pick agarkar, zaheer, munaf and pathan....3 of them shud play in a match ...together with either bhaji or kumble....the 5 th bowler shud be divided between tendu, sehwag and ganguly !!

In my opinion,BCCI's obsession with Australian Cricket style is the reason for the decline of the spin talent in India.Added to this the more of one-day games contribute to the decline.We need to produce wickets(not only for tests but also for one-dayers) that will assit spinners as well.We should not be carried away with the thought of so called ' Bouncy Greeny tracks', but, rather prepare pitches that suit the Indian strength,i.e Prepare Spinner friendly pitches.Why should we put a red carpet of Greeny tracks when Australia,SA or England visit us? I hope BCCI awakes to this issue and do necassary things to enhance the quality of spin bowling.Nothing is lost at this stage.

Spin can be particularly useful in ODI cricket. As a defensive option, slow bowling with its variations in drift, spin and loop can be harder to slog in the death overs. As an attacking option, spin can be useful in deceiving good batsman in ODIs especially against the non-subcontinental sides who are traditionally stronger against pace. The nurturing of quality spinners is integral to the survival of ODI cricket.