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April 23, 2007

Posted by Andrew Miller at 9:13 AM

Time to pin your colours to the mast

OK, so you've had time to consider all of the options. You've read the feature articles of our top 20 allrounders, enjoyed the memories of past great allrounder performances and watched some of the video profiles.

We've enjoyed reading and publishing your blog comments and following discussions, and occasional arguments, that have carried on over the last six months. We've received nearly 2000 blog posts on the greatest allrounder site and here's what you think:

You wonder why on earth is Chris Cairns not in the top 20 shortlist?

You ask why on earth is Ravi Shastri in the top 20 shortlist?

You say Flintoff is top-class player right now, no question, but has he done enough over his career to justify the tag of 'great'?

Not only that, but you think Imran Khan's aura as a captain and as a man only adds to his case, while Kapil Dev's allrounder performances in the 1983 World Cup inspired many a young India fan.

Sir Garry Sobers has the most vocal of the support

Anyway, it's time for the talking to stop and for the voting to start
- just who do you think is the greatest allrounder to have played the wonderful game of cricket? Get voting now.

Comments

Kapil was the greatest all rounder the reasoning is very simple.

1.He emerged as a sole fast bowler in a country of spinners or at best some workhorse medium pacers probably bowling at 100KMPH. Kapil was not fast (i would like to refer to this terminology as the word express seems overused).A fast bowler is either fast or not there is no need for the banal word "express" which is used today for every bowler bowling a little in excess of 145KMPH. So we see Malinga , Bond and sometimes Ntini or NEl being termed as express whereas there are only two who can stake that claim (Lee and Akhtar)" Period". Anyways Kapil was a magnificient swing bowler the like of which we have rarely seen.

2.He batted with a gay abandon and I would like to stake that this man was the most talented of all his contemporaries even Imran never matched Kapil's record against the all conquering west Indies. Also he never felt the need to take much responsibility by coming up the order as India traditionally has had a good batting line up where numbers were feudally fixed and experiments or changes were taboo.

3.He bowled on heart breaking Indian pitches and never used reverse swing , something which Imran learned from sarfraz and then used bottle tops , creams , oils all sorts of accoutrements to make an art more lethal and unplayable.Why are these same Pak bowlers not able to generate the same prodigious reverse swing , because umpires are strict and any wrongdoing is punished. Sorry for this but the Oval fiasco was real and the protest was nothing but some balm on bruised egos.

4.He captained a mediocre side to a world cup win ,unlike Imran who had a far superior side also this man never missed a match due to fitness problems . If he is not the best allrounder then surely is on par with the best.


Posted by: Shwet Awasthi at April 24, 2007 5:32 AM

imran khan is the greatest all rounder since he has been an exceptional bowler, good batsman, excellent captain and a marvolous personality.

His presence in the ground, as captain, mattered a lot to the players. He knew the art of using the right morale building gimmicks to a right person at right time and in right magnitude. He has been incredibaly intelligent in understanding and figuring out the strategy. He has been aggressive in his approach and always proved out to be a good warrior. During his captancy, pakistan won a lot of knail bitters.

As a bowler, he was quick,intelligent and right on the target. He was master of reverse swing and has especially been unplayable towards the death. The same features were then inherited by his protege wasim akram.

As a batsman, he played very crucial knocks usually at the time when those were desparately needed like the one in 1992 world cup final.

Pakistan cricket has never been the same after he departed. Now even the minnows like Ireland are knocking them out. It's only the Pakistan who can break the supremacy of australia in world cricket. what they need is just a strategist, visionery and leader as great as 'imraan khan'.

Posted by: zafar yaqub, austria at April 24, 2007 3:51 PM

Where is Chris Cairns? The sixth man to achieve an allrounder's double of 200 wickets and 3000 runs.

Posted by: Leslie at April 24, 2007 3:57 PM

Look Imran was better than Kapil and if u asked an international batsmen of that time who would u rarther face kapil? or imran? they would rather face kapil because imran was much more effective and he was a better batsman

Posted by: Imran at April 24, 2007 4:07 PM

Imran Khan was definitely better than Dev! He was a much better bowler - at his peak he was the best bowler in the world, and has something like the 4th highest rating ever, as well as having an test average under 23. He was a better batsmen as well, as indicated by his superior average in both forms of the game. Who can forget the 82/83 series against India - 40 wickets at less than 15 piece with a S/R of 33.4 and 251 runs at 50+ - with one of the greatest examples of reverse swing ever - I'm not too sure but I think the analysis was 8-60. Not too mention that he was a more successful captain, and, while this doesn't really matter, he was far more suave and erudite than Dev ever was.

Posted by: Jibran Afgan at April 24, 2007 5:16 PM

well kapil cant reach the heights of imran. he was surely better than kapil infact he is the best all rounder of all time. the stats speaks in favour of imran. he was a better captain and bowler than sobers. better performance than botham.

surely imran is the one who did which you can expect from a great all rounder. he definitely ticks all the boxes guys

Posted by: martin at April 24, 2007 6:43 PM

I think Imran khan & gary sobers are probably the top two.

Reason: Imran's statistics in his last 51 tests read.

> a batting average over 50
> and bowling at 21

Thes statistic show how consistent he was, and for anyone with figures like that in both batting/bowling. is truly a great. not to mention his captaincy. And when West Indies were blowing away everyside in the 80's, imrans pakistan was pushing them all the way

He started as a bowler and developed into a fine allrounder the world has seen.

So for this reason i put him on top.


Gary Sobers - No doubt he was a great allrounder
great batsman. and is par with imran at the top.


Gary Sobers-

Posted by: jimmy barnes at April 25, 2007 3:40 PM

Gilchrist in my opinion is number one. He is such an awesome batsman and also a wicket keeper, he frees up Australia to have an extra specialist bowler or batsman, not that they need either. Add to this the fact that he takes the tricky to fill opening batsman slot, he is unsurpassed!! That's high praise coming from a British Indian, who has no reason to support an Aussie.

Posted by: Sanjay Mazumder at April 25, 2007 3:45 PM

Imran Khan was best all rounder that time and very intelligent skipper and every one know about that.
Kapil Dev also admitted it when he was playing against pakistan and Imran khan lead the team. He was at match ceremony answered the question that Who is the player from where you and your team afraid in respect with performance in bowling and betting. Kapil said about batting we are not afraid but about bowling Imran is quite dangerous. So guys just choose Imran khan for best all rounder which is reality.

Posted by: Safee at April 25, 2007 4:12 PM

surely kapil was a greatest cricketer india, a land of more than 100 million, has to offer the world. but imran was a class apart and there is no doubt about that.
Shwet Awasthi says that there is no difference b/w express fast bowler and a medium fast one. i think the best answer we can get is from the batsmen, ask saurav ganguly about shoaib akhtar!. surely shwet when india will produce an express bowler only then u will know the difference. i hope they do..
as far as reverse swing is concerned it was sarfraz who invented it and imran who mastered it and the wwhole world now know that it is unfair to blame the bowlers who champion this mysyterious art. the oval fiasco was a creation of darrel hair's mind and nothing else. even the english tabloids now apologizes for their rule in 1992 ball tempering scandal. so shwet plz face the truth.

Posted by: Husnain at April 25, 2007 4:39 PM

As a youngster,my belief was that Sir Gary Sobers is the greatest alrounder of all time,but that opinion has changed,if u look at Kallis and see what he have achieved as a batsman as a bowler and in both forms of cricket,its easy to understand that now he is the greatest of them all.

Posted by: z.m.atif at April 25, 2007 7:49 PM

Despite the fact that Imran was my biggest childhood hero, I find myself able to reason why the greatest all rounder spot. Imran was a true all rounder of all sorts. At the same time he was a player, a captain, a manager, a coach, an icon and a father-figure for cricket in Pakistan whose aura cradled it towards some inspiring achievements.

Objectively, he did bat and bowl well, especially when considering the stats for the time he was captain, so much so that he was the single most important person in the team. He held prime importance in the Pakistani line up in both departments - a role which may have been repeated by Flintoff to some extent in recent times.

Though it sounds very Iconoclastic, I see Imran strongly challenging Sobers for this throne, whom I unfortunately did not see play but one can see clearly from his unmatchable stats that he sustained a marvellous batting average for almost a lifetime while also carrying a decent bowling average. However, when Imran was captain and at the same time he was peaking in his batting and his bowling with averages of over 50 and under 20 respectively, he probably was - the greatest allrounder of all time.

Posted by: Talha Ahmed at April 26, 2007 3:59 AM

I have to say the best all rounder is Imran Khan.with his entrance into cricket he was frighting to face and frighting to bowl at.he would think for the bowlers and the batsmen.he was a coach and a captain at the same time.also in 2nd place would be Wasim Akram.He set world records as he stepped into the arena.He was a role model to every fast bowler,his reverse swing was a dangerous ball to play and his legside was a dangerous area to bowl at.

Posted by: Waqqas Saeed at April 26, 2007 4:51 AM

correction -


Reason: Imran's statistics in his last 51 tests read.

> a batting average over 50
> and bowling at 19

Anyone who can average 50 in 51 tests is a great batsmen (consistent), but then to average 19 with the ball. makes him a great allrounder. and when you add the captaincy and charisma of a man who had a passion for the sport, had the eye to pick future greats and his mastery of variation, and a role model the world over. thats what you call a real allrounder!!


Posted by: jimmy barnes at April 26, 2007 9:35 AM

Imran Khan is the greatest allrounder who has ever honoured the game of cricket along with entertaining fans.Apart from very healthy avaerages in both batting and bowling,his leadership was a key factor;and as acknowledged by many and even Ian Chapel mentioned that he was the only captain with self belief and who challenged the Graet West Indian side when they were busy in white washes and other teams were just like minnows when playing with them.Not to forget the charm,attraction,popularity and glamour imran gave to the game that inspired many fast bowlers in years to come likes of Wasim Akram,Waqar Younis,Shoaib Akhtar and Aqib Javed.Imran's best ability was that he could turn the tempo and outcome of the game single handedly both with ball and bat and he did it on numerous occaisions.He could do so with his captaincy by leading from the front.Lastly picking up young talent and grooming them with self belief and tricks of the game was a big asset.

Posted by: Shakeel Ahmad at April 26, 2007 10:28 AM

I know there are more then 20 all time allrounders in the world but why I choosen Kallis, its a very simple opinion which is stated down below:

He plays like a complete batsman no matter on what number he is batting. On the other hand one can say he is a complete bowller when he bowls either with new or old ball. To perform these catagories you have to be very consistent and energatic which in my opinion is the only player in the world is Jacques Kallis. At the same time there is no disrepspect for other great crickets who are in or even out of this list. Ibrar Mir

Posted by: Ibrar Mir at April 26, 2007 12:38 PM

j.kallis is the greatest player of all the times in the history of cricket.do you know why?Because he have the ability of high class Batting as wel as high class Bowling.He comes at the no of 2nd bat and becomes a bat to brings to his team towards Victory.he is a medium pacer bowler.And when his captian think that its a time to break patnership he use his arrow in shape of J.kallis.

Posted by: waqar at April 26, 2007 9:21 PM

Has to be Imran. He was the one guy for me who turned the game of cricket into what we have today. Before him it was just a game played by thousands but after Imran, it was a game played by millions. NO one can doubt what he achieved as a bowler, batsman and above all as a captain. He transformed individual talents of Pak players into a deadly combination and not only that, he gave the world of cricket players like Wasim, Waqar, Inzimam, Aamir Sohail, Saeed Anwar and the list goes on. Just analyze for yourself how influential these figures have been over the game of cricket and how they have entertained us all over the years. So despite his wonderful batting skills, devastating fast bowling, leadership, maestro of reverse swing and killer looks, he gave cricket true MASTERS of the game.

Posted by: Jill at April 26, 2007 10:14 PM

Glamour in cricket came with Imran and almost gone with his departure. He is an icon, and cannot be compared with anyone else. Everyone has some plus to make him part of team and allow him to show other skills as well. In case if Imran bowling was his strength initially and as batsman he was an automatic choice later, needless to say anything about his captaincy. If you look at Sobers he cannot enter any team permanently on the bases of his bowling skills only can he? It was his batting prowess that made him so great and provided him a chance to prove his extra skill as bowler. Vice versa is the case with Imran, and when it comes to captaincy there is no comparison. And if you want to debate on cricket I haven’t seen any one challenging him on air too!

Posted by: Adnan Alavi at April 27, 2007 7:52 AM

I think here is no comments with the world greatest allrounder IMRAN KHAN .He is simply the best.He is the man who can change the match at the last moment with his bowling or batting.so simple is the world best allrounder is IMRAN KHAN
Imran

Posted by: imran at April 27, 2007 8:56 AM

i agree with your choice. what about wg grace? i'd have said sobers, miller, grace, gilchrist in that order. how about knott and vinoo mankad? even salim durrani should come in ahead of ravi shastri though neither belongs to the all time great allrounders list (i'd include only kapil dev n vinoo mankad from india). there seems to be, unavoidably, a bias in favour of contemporary players; is there any way to correct this or to correct possible national biases?

Posted by: bunty at April 27, 2007 9:32 AM

If I remember correctly that quote "Richard Hadlee at one end, Ilford's 2nd XI at the other" was actually made by Mike Gatting. Anyway, it was an ill advised remark whoever it was that said it because that was in 1986 when NZ went on to record its first series win in England. The NZ team certainly saw the funny side of it, they all had t-shirts made with "Ilford 2nd XI" printed on them.

Hadlee was not quite the one man band you make him out to be. For many years he was ably supported by the miserly bowling of Ewen Chatfield at the other end, something which one of your writers noted in a recent column. Chats is a folk hero of NZ cricket and would often tie down an end while Hadlee took the wickets at the other.

True, Hadlee wasn't surrounded by greats but in his team mates he had dogged cricketers who quite often boxed above their weight and helped finish the job that Hadlee started. Players like Jeremy Coney, Lance Cairns and the opening pair of John Wright and Bruce Edgar. Even after all these years NZ still hasn't found a pair of openers to replace them.

Finally, I don't believe Adam Gilchrist should be counted here. Gilchrist is a wicketkeeper/batsman whereas an allrounder is one who bats and bowls. This is not a case of anti-Australian bias coming from a Kiwi either. If you were going to do a poll on the greatest wicketkeeper/batsmen of all time then Gilchrist would more than likely come out on top.

Posted by: David Austin at April 27, 2007 11:06 AM

I've just seen that the results have come in on the audience survey. Of course Imran came out on top, followed by Sobers. That doesn't surprise me in the least, even though I've said why I think that Sobers is the greatest. What really dissapoints me is that Wasim Akram is at number three (THREE!), and Gilchrist and Pollock are both in the top 10 and the likes of Miller and Proctor are nowhere to be seen. Only one word for that-farcical.

Posted by: marcus at April 27, 2007 11:42 AM

It has to be Imran Khan. He was simpley un-believeable and truly inspirational. He was effective till the day he played unlike Kapil Dev who was not even half the force he used to be!

Posted by: Atif Subhani at April 27, 2007 12:17 PM

I think it is immesely unfair to label an all-rounder is someone who combines batting and bowlings, thus excluding wicketkeeper batsmen from this award - to me an allrounder is that player who gives the selectors one more spot to play with on a side, allowing an extra specialist batsman or bowler, according to the demands of a particular opponent or pitch. Adam Gilchrist, through reliably adding those runs down the order in tests, and habitually bludgeoning big scores from as a one-day opener, has allowed Australia, in the last decade to, for example pick two legspinners on wickets like Sydney, or blood new young batsman in big matches, safe in the knowledge that you have a largely safe bat down at seven. That he is also a magnificent keeper classifies him as a top all-rounder in my opinion.

Posted by: wickey at April 27, 2007 12:20 PM

I put together an analysis tool which took in all the Cricinfo Test stats and averages (plus a few of my own metrics such as century and 5-for frequency) and allowed weighting to be varied both to the individual stat elements, and overall to batting, bowling, fielding and "balance" (which weights towards the weaker side to weed out exceptional performers in one discipline). You can tweak the weightings a fair bit according to your view on what is important. Hours of fun if you like that sort of thing!

In nearly all weighting scenarios, Miller and Sobers come out as the top 2, with Imran, Botham and Greig following up most of the time in varying orders. My personally favoured weighting (35% batting, 40% bowling, 5% fielding and 20% "balance") puts Miller at the top, followed by Sobers, Botham, Greig and Imran (I included Cairns, and he came 7th after Kallis).

Have to admit I was disappointed at the low ranking of Kapil (my equally geeky Indian colleague and I spent a long time adjusting the weightings to boost his ranking!) and Hadlee (I guess the truth is he was an all-time great bowler who could bat a bit) using the tool, but then you can't put stats around some of the things that make a player "great". My heart says that the title is a fight between Miller, early Botham and late Imran. I think a true all-rounder needs to be a match winner in all disciplines, and whilst Sobers is one of the greatest (if not the greatest) players of all time, I put him in the Kallis mould: a fantastic batsman and a capable, but not match-winning, bowler.

And what about David Capel?

Posted by: Tom at April 27, 2007 12:51 PM

Its one and only Imran Khan, the great legend.
The only difference between him and others is confidence. It can be your bad day where you cannot bat or bowl but the confidence is self intiated which he had the most. The confidence in himself, in his team, in his and his team efforts all counted.
He used to play with aggression and anger which he used to dress them with his confidence and that makes a leader better, a different and unique person which can turn around things anytime. He was a true MASTER. A real fighter and great captain.Long Live Imran Khan. God Bless you.

Posted by: Jamal at April 27, 2007 1:22 PM

Kallis the best, but i am not forgetting the rest. Kallis is a full time batsman....not a pinch hitter like Symonds or Wasim Akram,who has got runs, but not in a batsman's way...He is the best batter of one of the best team in the world for atleast 8 years. He can go for a place in any "Best Batter" ranking nowdays. He balls good swingers and can be described as a good bowler any time.Gary Sobers was awsome, but Kallis can also be someone like him when he finishes his carrer.
Imran Khan was good, but will be remembered more because of his glamour.
How can someone add Ravi Shastri without adding Chris Cairns?
I think Kapil is the only all-rounder India has in their cricketing history.

Posted by: Sium Kawsayen at April 27, 2007 1:28 PM

Surely Sobers must be top although his career average with the ball probably doesn't fully honour his talent in this department. Imran Khan is probably next although I've always wondered what Procter would have been able to give if he had a proper test career. Besides Cairs there are a couple of players who might have a decent scream of being on the list in stead of some others, Alan Davidson springs to mind for me.
My top 5.
1. Sobers
2. Imran Khan
3. Hadlee
4. Gilchrist
5. Procter

Posted by: Robin Franken at April 27, 2007 2:10 PM

Sir Gary was without doubt the best all-rounder ever to grace the game. Amongst the top 4 of my generation - Hadlee, Kapil, Botham, Imran - Botham was without doubt the better batsman, while Hadlee the best bowler in the lot. Imran was the best captain, while Kapil scores highest marks as the most balanced all-rounder.

What irks me is seeing people vote for players like Wasim Akram. While he is surely one of the best left-arm pacers of all times, it is ridiculous to call him an all-rounder. Maybe next time we will have these people vote for Muddassar Nazar and Shahid Afridi.

Posted by: Raja at April 27, 2007 3:02 PM

Its ok for me because i am not a cricket expert but an enjoy-only Cricket viewer, and i voted for imran khan, which has the highest of votes. Let me clearify you that the reason for imran bagging the most of votes is not that the Paksitan-supporting viewers are good voters but because majority of the voters have had the chance to watch Imran deliver (same is the case with Akram), which is not the case for Sir. Sobers.

Posted by: waseem Ahmad at April 27, 2007 3:24 PM

So basically you are saying..

Gary was a better bowler than Imran...give me a break!!!! Gary did not even come close to Imran's guile, penetration and accuracy...

He might be a better batsman than him but no way was he a better bowler..Imran was a better leader of men as well..a better fighter...had more charisma than him !!!

And why not have Wasim Akram in the list of all rounders. Why is it ridiculous to call him an all-rounder when it is ok to call Kapil Dev an all-rounder..You need to go watch the 1992 World Cup Final, Nehru Cup 1988 to name a few to know how good of a batsmen he was...I can name a number of Wasim Akram late hitting wonders but I barely recall Kapil Dev ever making centuries or double centuries in any test...Akram highest test score is 250 over against Zimbabwe, has 50's to his name in Test match cricket...what bullshit are you talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Anand at April 27, 2007 3:36 PM

I believe Sobers was a better batsman compared to his bowling and fieldimg abilities. (Of course he was one of the worst captains any sport has ever had.)

His batting, however, must be viewed in the following context: He often batted at number 6 or 7, at a time when Conrad Hunte and Rohan Kanhai were in their prime. And, even though Hunte would have had numerous opening partners during his time, with Rohan at his peak, together with Hunte, certainly provided Sobers at 6 or 7 with sufficeint opportunities as a batsman.

His bowling must also be viewed within the context that included Wes Hall, Charlie Griffith, and Lance Gibbs.

In fact, Sobers' career was aptly summarised by Sir Frank Worrel when Sobers' availablity due to injury was in question. Sir Frank said he could afford to miss Sobers the batsman, Sobers the bowler, but not Sobers the fielder.

Posted by: Raj Persaud at April 27, 2007 3:40 PM

i agree with the raja how on earth can u call wasim akram a all rounder.no doubt he is a great bowler but never a batsman.
i would 've voted for Steve Waugh, he was pretty well balanced .....he could bat in the toughest of situations...really effiecent bowler at the death in one days ((guyz remember the slow bowl)) shrewd captain. he was fine on the field ((like all aussies)).

Posted by: rocky at April 27, 2007 4:01 PM

Although sobers is a legendary all-arounder i couldn't help but feel Imran was robbed of 1st place. He epitomised the concept of "all-rounder" who else bowled at such pace and skill, batted with an average of 50 in his final year and, definitively, captained one of the most volatile of teams in recent cricket history?

Posted by: Shazza at April 27, 2007 4:29 PM

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